Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
05-07-2012 | 03:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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I'll give up transforming 1 70 seat jet for 1 76 seat jet if:
a) All 50 seaters are parked and their number capped at 1. Just to remind us what happens when we give up scope.
b) Alaska codeshare gone. If we merge in next 5 years all of DCI parked.
c) Whatever George says to do about the JVs.
d) All of DCI pilot positions must be transferred from non Delta pilots to seniority list Delta pilots, with seats open for bidding and training in house, by 2015.
a) All 50 seaters are parked and their number capped at 1. Just to remind us what happens when we give up scope.
b) Alaska codeshare gone. If we merge in next 5 years all of DCI parked.
c) Whatever George says to do about the JVs.
d) All of DCI pilot positions must be transferred from non Delta pilots to seniority list Delta pilots, with seats open for bidding and training in house, by 2015.
They must be given the Delta interview and those SELECTED should become seniority list Delta pilots.
05-07-2012 | 03:51 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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From: window seat
He didn't say tose pilots would automatically become DL pilots. Other than the flows that are going to flow anyway of course. Beyond that he just meant its imperative to make those *positions* DL seniority list positions under our PWA and list. Flows, new hires or staple, it really doesn't matter as long as it gets done.
05-07-2012 | 04:07 PM
No longer cares
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From: 767er Captain
05-07-2012 | 04:23 PM
Line Holder
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From: 765A
I agree. Not liking the direction the rumors are going.
05-07-2012 | 04:26 PM
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From: 7ERB
05-07-2012 | 04:56 PM
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With regard to the Negotiator's Notepad:
I am extremely disappointed with DALPA and the negotiating team. We have been working under essentially bankruptcy forced work rules and pay rates for the better part of ten years. (Yes, there have been a few increases, but depending on one's sources, they haven't kept up/barely kept up with inflation.)
We have been told by numerous sources that ALPA "get's it"... We have been told that we have leverage...
And this is what they have negotiated? This is ALPA "getting it"? YGTBSM!!!
I don't need to see the whole contract because there is enough there now for me to say to say no.
I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't been pointed out, but under the proposed changes to reserve, crew scheduling can "park" a pilot just under the ALV so he/she is still on the hook and wait for a high time trip and fly them right up to ALV+15.
Sure there are a few minor improvements, but to me anyway what has been negotiated so far are significant productivity concessions. WHY ARE WE GIVING UP ANYTHING?
Lastly, from previous experience, I think the remaining negotiations will go something like this: Company playing hardball on the big stuff and the negotiating team being "burned out", agreeing to insufficient increases in pay rates, scope, etc. They'll say "Gee fellas we did the best we could. You can't reject this or we'll have to start all over. We'll get 'em next time...."
In the case of these expedited negotiations they'll play the "time value of money" card.
I don't want to wait (again) for "next time".
I am extremely disappointed with DALPA and the negotiating team. We have been working under essentially bankruptcy forced work rules and pay rates for the better part of ten years. (Yes, there have been a few increases, but depending on one's sources, they haven't kept up/barely kept up with inflation.)
We have been told by numerous sources that ALPA "get's it"... We have been told that we have leverage...
And this is what they have negotiated? This is ALPA "getting it"? YGTBSM!!!
I don't need to see the whole contract because there is enough there now for me to say to say no.
I'm somewhat surprised this hasn't been pointed out, but under the proposed changes to reserve, crew scheduling can "park" a pilot just under the ALV so he/she is still on the hook and wait for a high time trip and fly them right up to ALV+15.
Sure there are a few minor improvements, but to me anyway what has been negotiated so far are significant productivity concessions. WHY ARE WE GIVING UP ANYTHING?
Lastly, from previous experience, I think the remaining negotiations will go something like this: Company playing hardball on the big stuff and the negotiating team being "burned out", agreeing to insufficient increases in pay rates, scope, etc. They'll say "Gee fellas we did the best we could. You can't reject this or we'll have to start all over. We'll get 'em next time...."
In the case of these expedited negotiations they'll play the "time value of money" card.
I don't want to wait (again) for "next time".
Adding more potential forced flying is a no vote for me. The flip side of that, if there is language guaranteeing that I can bid for example a 50 hour schedule or take more days off on reserve when I need to then I might be ok with language allowing those who love to fly a million hours a year do their thing as well.
Money is important but what I want to see is more money while still living a half way normal life with my family and maintaining some semblance of health, circadian rhythm, family life etc.
The negotiating committee is headed the wrong way in my opinion.
05-07-2012 | 04:59 PM
Banned
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From: DAL
Where are the usual DALPA cheerleaders?
Eerily silent from the FPL-collecting spin machine. Could it be they are as disgusted as the rest of us at this turn of events?
Possibly they are waiting for the 10-3-3-3 "raise" to be finalized before they start crowing.
What are the chances that the LEC reps sh!tcan this steamer?
Eerily silent from the FPL-collecting spin machine. Could it be they are as disgusted as the rest of us at this turn of events?
Possibly they are waiting for the 10-3-3-3 "raise" to be finalized before they start crowing.
What are the chances that the LEC reps sh!tcan this steamer?
Last edited by More Bacon; 05-07-2012 at 05:18 PM.
05-07-2012 | 05:19 PM
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I'm still not too clear on why the company came to us, to open early, and get this thing done quickly. All I've heard from my Rep. when I called him to ask is,
"Richard wants to pursue Other Opportunities..."
Ummm...Ok, but what's in it, for US?
Are we going to get MORE MONEY/Benefits/Retirement/Work rules, etc. (another 'bite of the apple') if/when this Other Opportunity comes about? What if we are still in contract negotiations a year from now, and Delta has just posted a $2Billion proffit?
What if Richard's "Other Opportunity" is...Getting the Pilots to rush into being locked into a substandard contract for several more years, with minimum pay/benefit restoration now, before Delta starts making $2Billion/yr. with his new cheap fuel farm?? Or before O'Bama gets re-elected, or before he buys...? someone else, shrinks the mainline (again) and gives our DC9 flying to yet another RJ operator? Or all of the above?
Unless we get a huge pay restoration, with huge retirement paybacks, with upside profit sharing protections for if/when his fuel farm (the one our pay cuts paid for) purchase starts 'paying off', and better scope/job protections, I'm in no hurry to commit to yet another long term bankruptcy pay rate/benefit contract (adjusted for inflation, we are still there today!).
I see no reason to rush into this, just because he -said- he's got "Other Opportunities".
As I tell my wife when ever she wants me to do housework;
"Don't Rush ME! If I rush, I'll make mistakes, and we don't want that now do we?"
"Richard wants to pursue Other Opportunities..."
Ummm...Ok, but what's in it, for US?
Are we going to get MORE MONEY/Benefits/Retirement/Work rules, etc. (another 'bite of the apple') if/when this Other Opportunity comes about? What if we are still in contract negotiations a year from now, and Delta has just posted a $2Billion proffit?
What if Richard's "Other Opportunity" is...Getting the Pilots to rush into being locked into a substandard contract for several more years, with minimum pay/benefit restoration now, before Delta starts making $2Billion/yr. with his new cheap fuel farm?? Or before O'Bama gets re-elected, or before he buys...? someone else, shrinks the mainline (again) and gives our DC9 flying to yet another RJ operator? Or all of the above?
Unless we get a huge pay restoration, with huge retirement paybacks, with upside profit sharing protections for if/when his fuel farm (the one our pay cuts paid for) purchase starts 'paying off', and better scope/job protections, I'm in no hurry to commit to yet another long term bankruptcy pay rate/benefit contract (adjusted for inflation, we are still there today!).
I see no reason to rush into this, just because he -said- he's got "Other Opportunities".
As I tell my wife when ever she wants me to do housework;
"Don't Rush ME! If I rush, I'll make mistakes, and we don't want that now do we?"
Guys, don't get caught up in the excitement of what might be, think logically about what is being served on the plate. So far its pretty close to dog doo. Sorry NC, you guys need to step away from your elite, friends having dinner with "powerful people" mentality. Regroup and realize this is the time to get something worthwhile. If you cant do that, admit it and step away from the table.
05-07-2012 | 05:27 PM
Works Every Weekend
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From: 737 ATL
These negotiations have clearly gone terribly wrong.
Whatever "opportunity" has caused us to expedite the talks is not worth it.
The O'Malley administration and the negotiators have got to explain what has happened.
After all we've given through bankruptcy and everything, how in hell can we be negotiating more concessions?
The reps need to shut this thing down while there is still time.
05-07-2012 | 05:32 PM
Gets Weekends Off
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I actually see it another way. With AL+15 they can further reduce bodies, making swapping, taking days off even more difficult.
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