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Can you elaborate on what you like so far?
As it stands, the Negotiator's Notepad will result in a pay cut for lineholders and downward movement for every one. |
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
(Post 1185813)
80,
On another note, I just don't see how the Company can be offering early outs in this negotiation. Delta knows that this is going to be a pretty big gain for the pilots. Gains generally mean more pilots which means hiring. Denny |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1185814)
Can you elaborate on what you like so far?
Reserves at ALV +15 mean no green slips.o far? The rub in all of this is that *some* of the bad stuff has already been leaked, but we're being encouraged to hold fast and wait to read the entire TA for the good stuff, which by the NNP's own admission is mostly still being negotiated. That is a very bizzare way of negotiating and an even more curious way of selling it to the pilot group. Someone pointed out that it almost seemed like someone on the inside was using the NNP as a semi-veiled call for help. Not sure if that's the case or not, but its at least plausible. In any case, we have got to stop letting "contract time" be synonymous with more large "RJ's". 255 is way, way more than enough. Yeah I know, they'll give the entire airline to Emirates unless we allow more 76 seaters, in which case they will plug those holes for us. Right. |
Originally Posted by gloopy
(Post 1185824)
That is a very bizzare way of negotiating and an even more curious way of selling it to the pilot group. Someone pointed out that it almost seemed like someone on the inside was using the NNP as a semi-veiled call for help. Not sure if that's the case or not, but its at least plausible.
We are negotiating Richard Anderson's "cost neutral" contract. |
Originally Posted by PilotFrog
(Post 1185779)
Delta's purchase of the refinery was with the assistance from JP Morgan right? They are the ones going to purchase the fuel and deliver it an all right? Is it the same JP Morgan that is doing this great on wall street right now?
JPMorgan trading unit suffers big loss - May. 10, 2012 That was the ORIGINAL deal, but BP took over for JP Morgan at the last minute. I don't think they are involved now. |
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
(Post 1185813)
80,
You say above that the ALV+15 would rarely be used. I think, in the short term, you would be correct but in the long term (within a couple years) you would be incorrect. If the company gets this they will slowly but surely pare down the reserves in a category and, in a couple of years, you now have 10 fewer Capts. and 20 fewer FO's in category.(Numbers pulled out of a hat but you get the point.) That's when you will see many more reserve guys at ALV+15.Denny The latter group will be happy with the ALV+15, the former will find it to be hell. Even the guys wanting to fly right now may find themselves working more than they like and health declining, etc. I think it would be a big mistake to allow more forced flying. Also, you know the company will manipulate the numbers to get the staffing as short as possible and guys to go to the ALV + 15 as often as possible. They have shown time and again they will push as far as any system allows them to.
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
(Post 1185813)
On another note, I just don't see how the Company can be offering early outs in this negotiation. Delta knows that this is going to be a pretty big gain for the pilots. Gains generally mean more pilots which means hiring. What the NNP shows is how some of the gains we make in manning, like more vacation, will potentially be offset. Not saying I'm for or against. I want to see the whole agreement.
Denny |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1185829)
I wrote a decade ago that Delta's outsourcing would reduce the leverage of the Delta MEC and result in a long term negative trend vector for Delta pilots along a path of lower lows and highs.
We are negotiating Richard Anderson's "cost neutral" contract. While excellent in costing out some snapshot and strictly linear things, I think they do a horrible job of big ticket conceptual things like scope sales especially the long term blowback of lost leverage such things represent over time. |
Originally Posted by Tomcat
(Post 1185757)
Carl,
I've spent my time on the street and when I came back all the 72's and 73-200's were gone and replaced by Shiney RJ's. I get it! But I haven't seen one thing in writing regarding scope, only speculation. Perhaps I missed it. I'm completely open to suggestions..... Should I just not look at the TA, because I think I may not like what it says. I've talked to my Reps. I actually have flown with one of the guys on the NC while he was trying to keep current and was very specific about what I expected. I decided long ago what I require to vote yes and what will cause me to vote it down. I'm asking with all sincerity, what course of action do you recommend I take, what are you telling your fellow 74 guys? I've listened to all the parties, including what the DPA has had to say. Where is the hard proposal of which way we should go. I'm not looking for vague answers. I'm looking for people that are going to lead us to the next step. Take a room of 100 people and 98 of them will tell you why you can't do something. Are you one of the other two? Either lead, follow or get out of the way. Respectfully, TC |
Originally Posted by Denny Crane
(Post 1185813)
80,
You say above that the ALV+15 would rarely be used. I think, in the short term, you would be correct but in the long term (within a couple years) you would be incorrect. If the company gets this they will slowly but surely pare down the reserves in a category and, in a couple of years, you now have 10 fewer Capts. and 20 fewer FO's in category.(Numbers pulled out of a hat but you get the point.) That's when you will see many more reserve guys at ALV+15. Denny What matters is what the rest of the deal says. When that comes out, we will be able to get a good costing picture. |
Originally Posted by Bucking Bar
(Post 1185829)
I wrote a decade ago that Delta's outsourcing would reduce the leverage of the Delta MEC and result in a long term negative trend vector for Delta pilots along a path of lower lows and highs.
We are negotiating Richard Anderson's "cost neutral" contract. Bar; It will not be cost neutral. It will be cost positive. How much is yet to be determined. |
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