Details on Delta TA
09-04-2014, 06:08 AM
#1413
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
I thought that 1% is just over $20M. So, 25% should be a little over $500M.
I agree. This leaves $500 million for historic improvements in the othee sections.
Jerry
09-04-2014, 06:28 AM
#1414
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Position: Decoupled
Posts: 922
I completed the survey. I was disturbed by the questions about stock and stock options.
If you were on the property prior to 2000, you have already had your fill of stock options. Put it in my paycheck. I'm still papering the wall with stock options from a bankrupt company.
I feel the same way about profit sharing. No need to negotiate any changes to profit sharing. It's no risk to the Company. It's all risk to the employee. The Company only pays out if there is a profit. The employee doesn't get diddly squat if there isn't a profit.
I'm not quite sure where all the angst is with the profit sharing discussion. Some of you think you are important to the Company. You are not. You are a cost, an employee number. Profit sharing does not change how I safely conduct my business day. It shouldn't change how you conduct business either. I rarely agree with Sailingfun on anything. But, I have to concede his arguments about profit sharing.
Let's concentrate on better work rules, better insurance, better retirement, and working less. Profit sharing just isn't that important.
If you were on the property prior to 2000, you have already had your fill of stock options. Put it in my paycheck. I'm still papering the wall with stock options from a bankrupt company.
I feel the same way about profit sharing. No need to negotiate any changes to profit sharing. It's no risk to the Company. It's all risk to the employee. The Company only pays out if there is a profit. The employee doesn't get diddly squat if there isn't a profit.
I'm not quite sure where all the angst is with the profit sharing discussion. Some of you think you are important to the Company. You are not. You are a cost, an employee number. Profit sharing does not change how I safely conduct my business day. It shouldn't change how you conduct business either. I rarely agree with Sailingfun on anything. But, I have to concede his arguments about profit sharing.
Let's concentrate on better work rules, better insurance, better retirement, and working less. Profit sharing just isn't that important.
09-04-2014, 06:36 AM
#1415
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by sailingfun
The CDO's were something put forth by the union. The company especially with the restrictions we set up was not all that enamored with them. I was told that the 5:15 was costed out at 40 million. The CDO's at about 2 million.
Bravo, DALPA.
09-04-2014, 06:39 AM
#1416
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
Originally Posted by Whidbey
We continue to discuss moving days in the summer bid months and giving up ALV+15 in terms of jobs. For those of us on the property, using this language places the issue in a light that at first glance is more palatable to us...
However, when we say these things cost us 100-150 pilots, that's really another way of saying that the work of those 100-150 pilots has been distributed across the pilot group via these productivity increases.
Additionally, these efficiency gains realized by the company in C2012 remain with us, so I don't feel "blip" is an accurate word to use to describe their effects.
Yes, there was a steady increase in pilots required due to the shift of block hours from regional to mainline, which is a good thing... however, these efficiencies given up to assist in funding the raises weren't just a "blip" that would be quickly overcome by hiring, they are productivity increases (however big or small they turn out to be) that will continue to shape the quality of life of each Delta pilot going forward.
Not jumping on the bandwagon of bashing Sailing and Alpha, or even arguing the larger issue, just pointing out how I feel using this sort of language can shape perspective.
However, when we say these things cost us 100-150 pilots, that's really another way of saying that the work of those 100-150 pilots has been distributed across the pilot group via these productivity increases.
Additionally, these efficiency gains realized by the company in C2012 remain with us, so I don't feel "blip" is an accurate word to use to describe their effects.
Yes, there was a steady increase in pilots required due to the shift of block hours from regional to mainline, which is a good thing... however, these efficiencies given up to assist in funding the raises weren't just a "blip" that would be quickly overcome by hiring, they are productivity increases (however big or small they turn out to be) that will continue to shape the quality of life of each Delta pilot going forward.
Not jumping on the bandwagon of bashing Sailing and Alpha, or even arguing the larger issue, just pointing out how I feel using this sort of language can shape perspective.
First, if you believe that the 125 guys flew 1,000 hours per year, shifting their time to the rest of the pilot group equates to about 45 minutes per month. But that is not what is happening.
In actuality, what was occurring was that pilots were there flying full schedules for 3 months and then sitting around for 9 months collecting reserve guarantee as excess. That is where the savings were.
As we have grown flying time, we went from a huge pilot surplus to a measurable pilot shortage. That is what is causing people to feel more flying over this summer. It has nothing to do with work rule changes, it has to do with the company getting behind on hiring (they should have started months earlier) and now the growth in mainline is outpacing their ability to catch up during the summer. This would have occurred with or without the 125 pilot job efficiencies.
If you recall, about 18 months ago, guys were posting their 12 month lookbacks for block hours and they were showing 150-200 hours for the YEAR. Certainly no one thought that would last forever. The growth at mainline just accelerated that day of reckoning.
The changes made to improve efficiency had very little to do with the amount of flying in peak periods. The efficiency was to level load out reserve requirements so you were not fat 9 months a year just to have enough guys to fly the summer. Right now, the company has been in damage control to try to correct their tardiness in hiring. It's a little like Lucy working at the chocolate factory. As soon as she catches up on one part of the line the other is backed up.
Just to put the work rule changes in perspective. The current AE has 390 job openings and comes about 6 weeks after the last AE. That means a loss of 125 jobs delayed an upgrade by about 3 weeks. That is the lasting effect. One way or another, the staffing excess would have been sorted out. It just comes at the same time as block hours are growing quickly and those two effects are what you are feeling this summer.
09-04-2014, 06:44 AM
#1417
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
I
- Fewer pilots are forced to reserve during those months (good for QOL)
- Reserve pilots work more during those months (not so good for QOL)
09-04-2014, 06:46 AM
#1418
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
Apparently, you're not. He was simply countering Carl's incessant cost-neutral argument. There was nothing in his post stating that the overall deal was good or bad, simply that it increased pilot costs to Delta.
I know it's hard, Alan, but if you really try you might could keep up.(Was that as condescending to you as you were to me?
)
09-04-2014, 06:50 AM
#1420
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by orvil
I completed the survey. I was disturbed by the questions about stock and stock options.
If you were on the property prior to 2000, you have already had your fill of stock options. Put it in my paycheck. I'm still papering the wall with stock options from a bankrupt company.
I feel the same way about profit sharing. No need to negotiate any changes to profit sharing. It's no risk to the Company. It's all risk to the employee. The Company only pays out if there is a profit. The employee doesn't get diddly squat if there isn't a profit.
I'm not quite sure where all the angst is with the profit sharing discussion. Some of you think you are important to the Company. You are not. You are a cost, an employee number. Profit sharing does not change how I safely conduct my business day. It shouldn't change how you conduct business either. I rarely agree with Sailingfun on anything. But, I have to concede his arguments about profit sharing.
Let's concentrate on better work rules, better insurance, better retirement, and working less. Profit sharing just isn't that important.
If you were on the property prior to 2000, you have already had your fill of stock options. Put it in my paycheck. I'm still papering the wall with stock options from a bankrupt company.
I feel the same way about profit sharing. No need to negotiate any changes to profit sharing. It's no risk to the Company. It's all risk to the employee. The Company only pays out if there is a profit. The employee doesn't get diddly squat if there isn't a profit.
I'm not quite sure where all the angst is with the profit sharing discussion. Some of you think you are important to the Company. You are not. You are a cost, an employee number. Profit sharing does not change how I safely conduct my business day. It shouldn't change how you conduct business either. I rarely agree with Sailingfun on anything. But, I have to concede his arguments about profit sharing.
Let's concentrate on better work rules, better insurance, better retirement, and working less. Profit sharing just isn't that important.
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