Originally Posted by Sink r8

Well, I can only guess as to how widespread these practices are, but we don't need to focus on what Sink r8 thinks might be happening, or knows is happening, or bring names and examples into the picture.

It's simply sufficient to remind everyone of trip parking. It was there, and the union stepped in. Is there any reason to think the guys that found that loophole are too stupid to find others?

Not everyone that likes the idea of 1.5>80 is a scheming [deleted]. In fact, many, most people that like it, like it for reasons that are completely innocent and rational. It really sounds like a nice concept, on paper. The same is true of OOBS. It's just that I'm trying to think of the unintended consequences.

When looking at things people advocate for, I usually find that it's about money, and it's often about steering money from one party to another. It's a good idea to identify the winners and losers. Poaching open time, or other bases' open time, or steering juuust a little bit of extra coin my way seem like such victimless crimes, when you think about the group as a whole. Not so much when you really identify the pocket the money comes out of, and the money it ends up in.

I would advise a LOT of critical thinking in this area.

Originally Posted by Pineapple Guy

I'm not looking to be punitive. I'm trying to find a way to protect us from ourselves. You and I have been around long enough to remember when this was a good job --- 75 hour hard cap, zero medical premiums, DB plan. Now, guys are flying 90+ hours at straight pay on a regular basis. Guys fly 100+ hours credit in vacation months, effectively flying a full month and getting their vacation pay on top of that. As a result, seat progression has been non-existent for many of us for many, many years.

I'm simply asking us to consider rolling back the limits on straight pay flying. Is that so bad?

Originally Posted by Jughead135

New guy here, struggling to understand all these issues (*much* harder than learning the airplane...!).

Can anyone help with:

"Mafias"

"Trip parking"

Thanks!

Originally Posted by tsquare

OK, I disagree with that then. Scenario: I am an in base guy, and I want to pick up a trip in open time but I have a trip that conflicts. I am trying like hell to drop it but capped reserve days prevent it. That trip gets picked up by another base's pilot, and miraculously I then find someone that wants my trip. Dammit... that trip I DID want is now gone. That sucks. MEX here I come.

Originally Posted by scambo1

Mafia in this context is an organized group of flt attendants who use the high seniority of some coupled with a computer program to scour the swap boards, pickup trips, and broker them out to junior flt attendants for money...I've only heard all the stories, I have zero evidence.

Trip parking is where you move trips from your line to someone else's line so that you can pickup open time then you move the trips back. Normally it was done using swap with friends and only required two pilots to carry it out.

Originally Posted by Check Essential

Management cracked down on the flight attendant mafias when they found out there was money changing hands. Its against company policy to sell trips. The "bot" computer programs they were using were incredibly efficient at sweeping up open time.

The practice of manipulating pick ups and swaps still goes on though. Among pilots and flight attendants. It violates seniority and it violates the contractual max pick up limits. ALPA put a stop to the most basic forms of trip parking but it still occurs and if we ever get out of base swaps it will become a HUGE issue again.

Out of base pick ups and swaps would be an enormous can of worms. If your "friends" are senior enough you could bid NYC and never fly a trip out of NYC. Just live in ATL and pick up all the ATL trips.

Originally Posted by Check Essential

Management cracked down on the flight attendant mafias when they found out there was money changing hands. Its against company policy to sell trips. The "bot" computers they were using were incredibly efficient at sweeping up open time.

The practice of manipulating pick ups and swaps still goes on though. Among pilots and flight attendants. It violates seniority and it violates the contractual max pick up limits. ALPA put a stop to the most basic forms of trip parking but it still occurs and if we ever get out of base swaps it will become a HUGE issue again.

Out of base pick ups and swaps would be an enormous can of worms. If your "friends" are senior enough you could bid NYC and never fly a trip out of NYC. Just live in ATL and pick up all the ATL trips. Or SEA or SLC or any base you like.

Originally Posted by Timbo

The F/A's are still running their FaceBook swaps though.

If it were up to me, there would be ALV caps for all swaps, on the swap board and ICrew.