Details on Delta TA
07-25-2014, 09:01 AM
#22
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by johnso29
BATOL,
I can only speak for myself and a few others who I know feel the same way. Personally, I look to bring the flying BACK to mainline. EtD IMO isn't going to work to the degree that management needs/wants. If we, at the very least, hold the line management's options to staff DCI will continue to dwindle.
Recapturing the flying won't be easy. It will meet resistance from mainline pilots who feel we will have to sacrifice things in order to get it back. I think we have a golden opportunity. Only time will tell.
I can only speak for myself and a few others who I know feel the same way. Personally, I look to bring the flying BACK to mainline. EtD IMO isn't going to work to the degree that management needs/wants. If we, at the very least, hold the line management's options to staff DCI will continue to dwindle.
Recapturing the flying won't be easy. It will meet resistance from mainline pilots who feel we will have to sacrifice things in order to get it back. I think we have a golden opportunity. Only time will tell.
07-25-2014, 09:05 AM
#23
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by thefoxsays
Please educate me on why out of base swaps is a bad thing. We had it at my previous 121 outfit and it was a huge QOL improvement.
Out of base swaps were subject to staffing matrix's....
Again I don't see the negative.
Out of base swaps were subject to staffing matrix's....
Again I don't see the negative.
What we really need to do is bring all swaps under the pickup limit. That would increase staffing.
07-25-2014, 09:07 AM
#24
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by sailingfun
Oh come on! I am not in the least in favor of pay banding but let's not get hysterical! 20% of the Captains positions? It might be 2 or 3 %.
I don't look at today. I look to the future and 1000 less captains is easily possible.
In 2022 over 1000 pilots will walk out the door. IMO that will generate over 6000 initial training cycles in 12 months. Perhaps you think less, but just imagine the number of seniority list instructors to accomplish the OE. The number of pilots required to cover the flying while all these pilots are in training.
Ask your reps to have ALPA E & FA do the math. The numbers are staggering.
jerry
07-25-2014, 09:12 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,273
Originally Posted by gzsg
Sailing
I don't look at today. I look to the future and 1000 less captains is easily possible.
In 2022 over 1000 pilots will walk out the door. IMO that will generate over 6000 initial training cycles in 12 months. Perhaps you think less, but just imagine the number of seniority list instructors to accomplish the OE. The number of pilots required to cover the flying while all these pilots are in training.
Ask your reps to have ALPA E & FA do the math. The numbers are staggering.
jerry
I don't look at today. I look to the future and 1000 less captains is easily possible.
In 2022 over 1000 pilots will walk out the door. IMO that will generate over 6000 initial training cycles in 12 months. Perhaps you think less, but just imagine the number of seniority list instructors to accomplish the OE. The number of pilots required to cover the flying while all these pilots are in training.
Ask your reps to have ALPA E & FA do the math. The numbers are staggering.
jerry
07-25-2014, 09:18 AM
#26
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by Alan Shore
Longer freezes have no effect on staffing. All they do is cause some other pilot to take the frozen pilot's training slot. OTOH, an overall reduction in training brought about by there being less incentive to change equipment will reduce staffing, because there are fewer pilots off the line in training and fewer SLIs needed.
One would have to come up with an assumption of the amount of the reduction in training before one could quantify the effect on staffing.
One would have to come up with an assumption of the amount of the reduction in training before one could quantify the effect on staffing.
Here is the fact that I got from an UAL MEC member on pay banding/longer freezes and their experience. I sure you have the connections in ALPA to verify what I am saying.
Prior to the concession, 8% of the seniority list pilots were involved in training. Either as an instructor or a student. After the concession, it was cut in half to 4%.
4% of their pilot group about 500 pilot jobs lost.
Now, and you are good at this kind of math, calculate the number of jobs lost in 2022 when over 1000 Delta pilots retire.
IMO there is a good chance we will have over 16,000 pilots by then.
Concessions are a very bad idea and totally unnecessary. IMO
Jerry
07-25-2014, 09:20 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,522
Originally Posted by gzsg
Alan
Here is the fact that I got from an UAL MEC member on pay banding/longer freezes and their experience. I sure you have the connections in ALPA to verify what I am saying.
Prior to the concession, 8% of the seniority list pilots were involved in training. Either as an instructor or a student. After the concession, it was cut in half to 4%.
4% of their pilot group about 500 pilot jobs lost.
Now, and you are good at this kind of math, calculate the number of jobs lost in 2022 when over 1000 Delta pilots retire.
IMO there is a good chance we will have over 16,000 pilots by then.
Concessions are a very bad idea and totally unnecessary. IMO
Jerry
Here is the fact that I got from an UAL MEC member on pay banding/longer freezes and their experience. I sure you have the connections in ALPA to verify what I am saying.
Prior to the concession, 8% of the seniority list pilots were involved in training. Either as an instructor or a student. After the concession, it was cut in half to 4%.
4% of their pilot group about 500 pilot jobs lost.
Now, and you are good at this kind of math, calculate the number of jobs lost in 2022 when over 1000 Delta pilots retire.
IMO there is a good chance we will have over 16,000 pilots by then.
Concessions are a very bad idea and totally unnecessary. IMO
Jerry
07-25-2014, 09:21 AM
#28
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by sailingfun
6000 training events sounds high. The last I heard with our current semi banded rates you might see 4 events. Even if it's 6 events pay banding would have to eliminate all 6000 events to cost us 1000 jobs. In reality it might eliminate 10 percent of the training or 600 events.
I think we have given enough.
We have stagnated long enough.
JMO
07-25-2014, 09:23 AM
#29
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,108
Originally Posted by gloopy
What freezes did they have then and now?
The pilots I know hate it.
07-25-2014, 09:53 AM
#30
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Originally Posted by thefoxsays
Please educate me on why out of base swaps is a bad thing. We had it at my previous 121 outfit and it was a huge QOL improvement.
Out of base swaps were subject to staffing matrix's....
Again I don't see the negative.
Out of base swaps were subject to staffing matrix's....
Again I don't see the negative.
Hell no.
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