thats my concern..whats on the horizon? Large group 1 aircraft order? Another MA? JV deals? Besides slowing down our large PS checks this year there has gotta be another reason this is moving at Mach 3.

To avoid very large profit sharing payouts to pilots and other non-Union Delta employees. It's a 3-way win for them:

1. They get us to self fund our gains
2. They pay out far less to pilots given 2015's large profit forecast
3. They pay out far less to non-Union employees because they can do so at their whim and use the pilots' reductions as justification

That's the rush here.

Carl

Sure and I agree with this, but I think there is probably more in the background that will be a bad deal for the group.

I think that is the concern of many. This is especially true for the folks who have been around long enough to see the playbook used before. As the letter said, the battle plan doesn't survive first contact...except for the post TA battle plan sales job cram down. Then it is never strayed from.

As a new guy, your threat view is different from mine and mine is different from Timbo's. I am really, really concerned about a top end scope cave. China Eastern is going to get written in somehow. Recall we recently and dramatically gave up significant NRT flying protections for a (IMO) lesser pacific flying floor. Seattle is capacity maxed for now. Everyone on the planet but us can figure out how to make money with 777s. Big airplanes vacume everyone up to a higher paying seat.

I am in the camp that believes a TA is shortly forthcoming. I expect it to be meh...just been at the dance long enough...I'm not a marine, the fat chick is not a win.

There is something huge...it's just false. I'm certain management is filling our guys' heads in closed session with new jets and massive growth...but it has to be done NOW, NOW, NOW!! And the only thing we're asking for is a reduction in your profit sharing.

The reality: Other promises never materialize and profit sharing reductions stay. Union responds by saying profit sharing was "at risk" anyway.

Carl

I think the PS sharing checks are just that big of a concern and concentration and a desire to get relief on scope. I don't think anything else is necessary.

The only way you can sell a loss in W2 pay is to say you transferred at risk pay to guaranteed pay.

Sure nobody knows the future but I think it's safe to assume if we're not in an economy where we are having profits we will inevitably be in an economy we're we are asked to provide concessions.

So the end result is trading at risk pay for guaranteed pay amounts to taking less W2 whether the economy is good or bad.

Exactamundo.

Carl

Two thoughts immediately sprang to mind when reading the Council 16 letter.

1) A battle plan crafted by Generals who know what they are doing survives first contact with the enemy. It sets the direction for the battle and with minor adjustments, leads to overwhelming victory. I want a different group of generals crafting my battle plans.

2) WE are MIKE TYSON in this ring, grow a pair and act like it.

As much as I'd like to believe this I think we are getting setup for disappointment.

Scambo,
As a new guy I'm equally concerned and alarmed by all these JV deals. I came from another legacy with 3x the 777s alone. I would hope we could reverse the trend of selling out the wide body flying. What's the latest with the grievance anyhow? Silent so far..?