I am not sure a lot of FO's know just how much of a concession this is if true...Like I have said before even if they are not bidding with LCA now they will be shortly as they gain senority..I know guys at 50% relative position that are getting all trips with LCA, so it is not just for the super senior guys/girls. Not to mention if the trips are pulled out of the pot so no FO can bid the trips. Every single FO needs to look very close at this concession when they vote on the TA. Instant no vote for me.

FYI, The JCBA was passed by this margin because SOMEBODY already went in and got their own deal prior to the NWA folks getting involved. Kinda difficult to do better when over half the pilot group already had "their deal".

There is a train of thought that maybe had we all done a contract together, we all would have been better off.

WI agree completely. Another issue is that not all LCA trips are actually used for training. Also, quite a few LCA swap their trips around after the initial bid comes out. Withholding trips hurts all the first officers in a category not just senior guys because there are less trips in the pot overall for bidding.

Great point. What if the trip were withheld, then CA swaps it out. Someone else flying it and you didn't even have a chance to bid it. Or they say LCAs can not swap trips. Lots of hypothetical cases and none of them are good. Like I said, I've never done one but this is an auto no for me as well.

PM sent....RE:/November Rain

No.. Pretty sure CN was still the FO rep in NYC for 2012.

He was. I remember communicating with him during C2012.

And for what it is worth, I am just calling a spade a spade, nothing against Shiz.

The problem with the "genius" is that he's a total Alpha Hotel. I've dealt with him personally. We're negotiating with sharks, independent thinkers, who will be two steps ahead of inside the box thinkers

RH thinks he's the smartest guy in the room, he'll tell you himself. Crunching numbers doesn't make you a genius. Kids in Singapore can do that stuff. Beating the former HR guy, the U of Va Phi Beta Kappa will be the proof.

It's a very large give back when looking forward to the mass retirements and mass amounts of training, IOE trips, that would be generated from those retirements. A very large amount of pilots at all could would benefit from LCA trips. Imagine when we retire 800 per year. Many pilots could earn triple pay going forward should we not give this up. If we do give it up, imagine what it should be worth when weighted against the future retirements/training. Imagine, the company is thinking two contracts ahead. Seems were thinking two contracts behind if the concession rumors are true. Once that ball gets rolling how many pilots would be on double or triple pay? might be better off waiting for that than a small raise now.

The one thing that will happen is that Dalpa/Alpa will show it's true beliefs as far as negotiations and pilot worth. Never has there been a better time to negotiate. There is no bankruptcy, no recovery, etc. that they can hide behind. This time they will have to stand on there own. There are no excuses this time. Previously the concessions were balance against the economy and recovery, even though there were disagreements all the economics were a gamble in many pilots eyes. This time it's pretty clear business is great. In other words, there can be no argument for concessionary contract or zero cost contract. It should be at a minimum 90% in our favor. Wheels are in motion and probably not much one can do to change whats going to happen. However, out of this will come the certainty of what Dalpa stands for. Against uncertain economics at least half the pilots gave Dalpa the benefit of the doubt. It will be interesting if Dalpa shows up with the same plan of a trade off for a contract. Well we'll see how the group feels about that when there is no argument against the backdrop of a bad economic situation. I will be curious to see how the pilots react as a group just as much as what Dalpa will deliver.

Interesting times when all the excuse are gone!