Originally Posted by Sounds

What other industry even considers giving profits like this to employees? Serious question here. What other industry values the employees over shareholders? Certainly not many. In my eyes you're comparing economic relations apples with labor relations oranges.

The NMB won't hold your view.

Originally Posted by TNDeltaFlyboy

While most everyone is focused on the top end of the pay scale, I'm looking at the bottom as that's where I am. Please tell me if I wrong about this but the E195 in the current contract has it's own pay scale. From what I see today, the new scales have the 195 and 190 in the same line. So, a hypothetical 12-yr 195 Captain just took a $24ish/hr rate cut and they aren't even on property.

Originally Posted by ryanb5005

Does anyone have any information on the issue of new hire pilots and seat locks?

Originally Posted by forgot to bid

Take a typical 12 year 7ERB as an example and review 2016 as if we never got a TA all year vs if TA 2015 passes.

Use $4.5B PTIX for 2014 and say that's what we make in 2016. Say wages for all PS eligible employees is $4B.

In the end, said FO would make $24K more in flight pay, lose $5.6K in PS, make $2.7K more in 401K, come out $21.2K ahead for entire year of 2016 with TA2015 vs no TA.

For 7B PTIX, comes out $16.5K.

Now had TA2015 been same pay rates and PS untouched, he'd come out $19K ahead of where TA2015 puts them.

Originally Posted by Timbo

Here's a quick WAG:

In C2012 we reduced the profit sharing formula from 15% to 10% of the profit up to $2.5 Billion, to self fund our crappy raises, but left the amount above $2.5 Billion alone, at 20%.

Now they are also going to reduce the amount of PS above $2.5 Billion to 10% instead of 20% to self fund these crappy raises. That is a 50% reduction!

If the company earns $6 Billion, that's a reduction from $700 Million (20% of the amount above $2.5 B) to half of that; or $350 Million. That is for all employees, the pilots get about 1/3 of that number, or $115 Million, instead of twice that, or $230 Million.

In 'real dollars' the number crunchers at the MEC have said that amount equals 5.75% in pay rates, which is why we get a 6% pay raise on Jan 1. It's a wash, not a 'raise'.

The two out years of 3% raises are a joke, just like 2012. Those both need to be at least 5%.

The 8% up front is a 'raise' but still 10% short of the raise required to bring us back to 2004 pay rates, which will finally be obtained...in 2018! 14 years and Billions in concessions after 2004.

So basically, what we are getting is an 8% raise, but only if we give up a lot of other concessions to 'pay' for it. JV concessions is one of the biggest concessions, but you never wanted to be a Wide Body Captain anyway, right?

You'll look sweet with that E195 retirement photo.

Originally Posted by MCFlyer

Email sent.

Originally Posted by espee

I'm not sure exactly what you're looking at...but it looks like a $14.08 increase to me? You're not comparing the "current" column in the new pay rate chart with the PWA are you?

Current PWA E195 12-year CA rate: 163.88
C2015 rate chart E190/195: 177.96

I will say, I'm not sure where they are getting the "current" blended E190/195 rate for that chart. $140.19 is not an average of the two E190 and E195 rates in the current PWA.

Originally Posted by Sounds

What other industry even considers giving profits like this to employees? Serious question here. What other industry values the employees over shareholders? Certainly not many. In my eyes you're comparing economic relations apples with labor relations oranges.

The NMB won't hold your view.