Originally Posted by EdGrimley

This union used an electronic ballet system administered by a third party. It included an admin function for those within in the union (that hired the third party company) to "correct" votes if there were any issues. It was through this portal that votes were "massaged".

I don't think it's too much to ask allowing pilots a means to check their votes and reconcile with the system pilot wide. Especially with something as important as this TA. The fact our union resists such transparency raises flags.................................... again.

Originally Posted by EdGrimley

For those who haven't followed the marketing material being disseminated on Twitter/Facebook, here are some of nuggets you will likely hear over and over below.

Notice as you read through FB and Twitter, hardly one iota mentioning downside. Just cherry picking and putting some nice spin. Sorry to use this word but it's DB at it's worst and the wrong way for a respectable union to lead.

Do the words of Mike Donatelli reconcile with the TA you are seeing? Are his words accurate and honest? Or are they just marketing hype similar to what Ford and Harrison would put out? Does anybody honestly think this TA in any way resembles the input given through the contract survey? How about the fear of what will happen if we don't accept what was offered? This is not leadership. This is the mouthpiece of management.

MD: Opportunity. I have said it many times. Opportunity to once and for all, turn the corner and never look back,makes certain our futures.

MD: The best combination of Pay rates and Profit Sharing, The Best Scope. The Best work rules. All at a growing airline. A growing mainline.

MD: (see chart) While there are lots of stories here, the main takeaway is that we must GET…and STAY…synched to our airline.

MD: From the JCBA to Contract 2012, we stayed true to our mission…to find value anywhere, anyhow…to keep the raises coming.

MD: We formulated a strategic plan. We asked our pilots about a new contract. Your reps put the plan in motion.

MD: We have a deal on the table. A contract that sets a new standard. Raises the bar across the board. Pushes beyond Industry Leading.

MD: Restoration? How about Resurgent? A resurgence of the Delta Pilots and a resurgence of the profession.

MD:You told us what you wanted in surveys&on the phone.You told us that you like the direction we’re going together.You said “Keep it Going”

MD: Contract 2012 delivered on what it was supposed to do…to increase pay and job opportunities for the Delta pilots.

MD: So back to present day…This Deal on the table is so much more that 2012. Imagine what this will mean to Delta pilots and their families.

MD: I often hear the terms “Member Driven”, and “Bottoms Up” when describing what we do. Well, it’s time to Walk the Walk, not Talk the Talk

MD: To be perfectly clear, These are mature negotiations in which we pulled every trigger, fired every bullet, to deliver every last penny.

MD: The idea that we can simple resume negotiations…go back to the table and pick up where we left off is a fallacy. It simply won’t happen.

MD: The next step if we can’t move forward right here and right now is to step back and prepare for a long slog with the NMB....

MD:.... Just like FedEx. Just like Southwest. Our fate will be in the government’s hands.

MEC: The 14.48% pay raise can be viewed as an 8.74% pay raise + a 5.74% conversion of “at-risk” profit sharing into a “no-risk” increase in pay

MEC: This converted 5.74% of variable compensation to fixed compensation in hourly pay rates - assumes DAL achieves $6.0+ billion every year...

MEC: The TA maintained no cap on profit sharing.

MD:This TA will redefine getting PAID as an airline pilot. Before any change to profit sharing, it is ABOVE C2K Rates"


TOTALLY MEANINGLESS and an insult to the intelligence of our pilot group.

Originally Posted by Sounds

Curious, was there ever a case (in any airline), where the second offer was more lucrative than the first?

Originally Posted by pilotc90a

Do you really think AF is going to park A380's? I don't. The Euro Laws make it very hard to change block hours (jobs) so I really can't see them down gauging either. The weak Euro makes those routes less profitable for us, so I really don't see us up gauging, quite the opposite in fact. I don't want this part of the agreement to be one of those "we didn't expect them to do that...." when we are flying one A321, to their A380. But at least Delta keeps half the profit, right?

In fact, our BH is LIMITED to 50% +/- 1%. So even if we wanted to fly more frequencies, we can't. I want those jobs at Delta!

Originally Posted by Flying Elvis

And on top of that, consider that he doesn't upgrade to Capt for another few years due to loss of WB flying and conversion of 747s to E190s.

Originally Posted by LeineLodge

Similar to what 80 said, I had our codeshare committee chairman explain that part to me earlier. I highly respect his opinion as he has lived these numbers in greater detail that I ever want to - by "not so bad" I meant that it seemed more or less the same result as what we currently have, just a different metric to measure the same flying. Part of the rationale was that as we upguage to 330's from ER's some of the EASK deficit would go away, and also something about how we augment and the euros don't. I'm not willing to write that section off until I understand it better.

This is all moot if the reps don't ratify it. We'll see tomorrow if they even get through all the material - which they had barely begun to do this afternoon by 6pm...

Originally Posted by newKnow

American Airlines flight attendants - April 2003.

Sailing said the second offer for MD-11 pay was better, too.

The world, nor Delta, will fall off a cliff if the union sends this thing back.

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp

His description was similar- we prob had the same guy. It didn't hit home with me, though. They staff only slightly different than us- most of their ops are 3 pilot just like ours.

We were writing back to each other... it was pretty funny. I wrote down 1 757= 1 380?!?

He scratched out my 1 757 and put 50 350. I scratched out his 50 and put 25, then a further minus 16 for the loss of the 744.

If this gets passed by the MEC tomorrow, I hope they will appropriately address the positives AND negatives to this change. Given the glaring errors and poor interpretations from harwood's presentation today, I'm not particularly upbeat on that hope.

We'll see. There are a couple schools of thought in regard to the reps killing the TA- Kill it in the process now, or send it to the membership and have them kill it which will possibly send a stronger message.