Details on Delta TA
06-13-2015, 03:44 PM
#8491
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by Professor
I agree with all of that Carl.
The only presupposition you make I question is the idea that the NMB would think DL bargained in bad faith, when they offered industry leading rates and work rules that met or exceeded most other carriers.
At some point I agree that management blinks. Question is when? I don't know or even have a guess.
The only presupposition you make I question is the idea that the NMB would think DL bargained in bad faith, when they offered industry leading rates and work rules that met or exceeded most other carriers.
At some point I agree that management blinks. Question is when? I don't know or even have a guess.
My supposition of the NMB calling out management for bad faith negotiations was based on the further supposition by some here that management would simply shut the door to further negotiations. That would be bad faith negotiating under the RLA. Yet another pressure point against management.
We have tremendous leverage if we vote this TA down.
Carl
06-13-2015, 03:44 PM
#8492
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: Downward-Facing Dog Pose
Posts: 1,537
DOES ANYONE KNOW WHY RA WANTS TO FAST-TRACK THIS TA, AS HE CLEARLY DOES????
^^^^This smells very fishy to me. And is perhaps very exploitable.^^^^
It also neatly undermines anyone's rational that RA would be content to sit out the NMB process.
^^^^This smells very fishy to me. And is perhaps very exploitable.^^^^
It also neatly undermines anyone's rational that RA would be content to sit out the NMB process.
06-13-2015, 03:45 PM
#8494
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: ATL 717 A
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by TED74
I'm thinking this forum is a dangerous place. I've spent days glued to it, happy how many people (here) plan to vote no. I've talked with most of my Delta buddies, who all think the TA stinks (but not all of whom can vote).
Then, I go fly the line and 100% of the Captains I've flown with (1 of 1) say "The pay is pretty good...we won't get more if we go back, I'm probably a yes" (thence commenced much discussion and he was receptive to the alternative - or appeared to be so).
Based on my statistically insignificant friend pool, I think the younger guys are pretty on-board with voting this down. But what about the As??? Especially those who don't "waste their time" here...I'm worried that the resistance isn't more organized.
Then, I go fly the line and 100% of the Captains I've flown with (1 of 1) say "The pay is pretty good...we won't get more if we go back, I'm probably a yes" (thence commenced much discussion and he was receptive to the alternative - or appeared to be so).
Based on my statistically insignificant friend pool, I think the younger guys are pretty on-board with voting this down. But what about the As??? Especially those who don't "waste their time" here...I'm worried that the resistance isn't more organized.
I was a straight money guy, then I turned 50. I can hold A in 7ER down, but chose the 717 for family obligations. Some things are more important than money. Why I'm participating in this;
- apparently, no one can voice opposition to the TA on the MEC Facebook page. So, here I am (if I'm wrong about the MEC FB page, I apologize. Just what I've heard, and I'm not signing up to FB to find out).
- due to a car wreck, I've experienced the extremes of the current sick policy. Five weeks out for physical therapy, which didn't take, two months following surgery. Got the 15 day CP phone call, got the verification. Easy. From what I've read about the new policy, if I did this then got a cold, I'd have to get a note. Sometimes it's a week + to see my doctor. What hassles will the new policy entail?
- Yeah, the 717 replaced some RJ flying, but it also replaced 88 flying, and the 88 replaced 757 flying. The 88's are getting old; what's gonna replace them? It'd be nice to think 320s/321s and 737s, but if E-Jets are already coming, why not those? And they pay $48/hr less than the 88. See where I'm going with this?
- The JV... Man I don't know who to believe on this one but my gut tells me this is not good. In my mind, any JV is taking big $$ from us. Whenever I see the VA 330 parked at the F terminal in ATL, I wonder what those guys are getting per hour. Same with GOL and AeroMexico.
- I'm just plain against underwriting a pay raise with cutting back profit sharing. In a time of record profits, why give up any compensation?
One of these days, I'd like to get back to the bigger iron. It'd be nice if it were still around to do so.
One more thing about the sick leave thing: for those of you that are lucky enough - or young enough - to not use much or any sick time, that's great. Hope it lasts. I used to not use much, then life intervened. Since '08, enough significant medical stuff has occurred so that my DPMA is gone. Dealing with doctors, hospitals, and insurance companies is bad enough. Throw The Company on top of that...please.
06-13-2015, 03:48 PM
#8495
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Power top
Posts: 2,959
Originally Posted by slowplay
At the MEC meeting the negotiating committee put up a bunch of slides on our sick leave use and its change over time. I'm working from notes, so I apologize for any errors. Since 2012 sick leave usage is up 30%. The top 20% of sick leave users that don't go on disability use 50% of our sick leave. 5% of our pilots use more than 40 days per year and never go TD or LTD.
They also addressed that demographically our aging pilot group should only use about 1% more, not 30% more. There has been a pilot behavior change. UAL and AMR's sick leave has decreased (no data provided) but both those properties have substantially more punitive sick leave provisions than we do, beginning with only 60 hours of accrual.
They said because of increased costs this is one of management's top priorities.
I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.
They also addressed that demographically our aging pilot group should only use about 1% more, not 30% more. There has been a pilot behavior change. UAL and AMR's sick leave has decreased (no data provided) but both those properties have substantially more punitive sick leave provisions than we do, beginning with only 60 hours of accrual.
They said because of increased costs this is one of management's top priorities.
I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.
06-13-2015, 03:52 PM
#8496
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: CA
Posts: 357
Originally Posted by slowplay
At the MEC meeting the negotiating committee put up a bunch of slides on our sick leave use and its change over time. I'm working from notes, so I apologize for any errors. Since 2012 sick leave usage is up 30%. The top 20% of sick leave users that don't go on disability use 50% of our sick leave. 5% of our pilots use more than 40 days per year and never go TD or LTD.
They also addressed that demographically our aging pilot group should only use about 1% more, not 30% more. There has been a pilot behavior change. UAL and AMR's sick leave has decreased (no data provided) but both those properties have substantially more punitive sick leave provisions than we do, beginning with only 60 hours of accrual.
They said because of increased costs this is one of management's top priorities.
I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.
They also addressed that demographically our aging pilot group should only use about 1% more, not 30% more. There has been a pilot behavior change. UAL and AMR's sick leave has decreased (no data provided) but both those properties have substantially more punitive sick leave provisions than we do, beginning with only 60 hours of accrual.
They said because of increased costs this is one of management's top priorities.
I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.
Penalizing the entire pilot group is not the correct way and DALPA should know better.
Also, if you are going to come here to answer questions, stop saying "I'm going from memory or notes and sorry for errors". If you are going to defend POS2015, you better come ready to provide detailed facts. Also, all you Ford (union busting contract pushing guys) and DALPA insiders need to stop with the hyperbole and quit downplaying all the downside.
You leave yourself these "outs" to weasel out of what you said later. For this reason, you cannot be taken seriously. It's just another form of skewing the data to drive perception. Half truths and selective snippets that you do happen to remember don't cut it anymore.
06-13-2015, 03:55 PM
#8497
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
Originally Posted by MtEverest
Without some way to do our own audit using guys we trust (not DALPA or management) these numbers are just numbers and mean nothing.
Penalizing the entire pilot group is not the correct way and DALPA should know better.
Also, if you are going to come here to answer questions, stop saying "I'm going from memory or notes and sorry for errors". If you are going to defend POS2015, you better come ready to provide detailed facts. Also, all you Ford (union busting contract pushing guys) and DALPA insiders need to stop with the hyperbole and quit downplaying all the downside.
You leave yourself these "outs" to weasel out of what you said later. For this reason, you cannot be taken seriously. It's just another form of skewing the data to drive perception. Half truths and selective snippets that you do happen to remember don't cut it anymore.
Penalizing the entire pilot group is not the correct way and DALPA should know better.
Also, if you are going to come here to answer questions, stop saying "I'm going from memory or notes and sorry for errors". If you are going to defend POS2015, you better come ready to provide detailed facts. Also, all you Ford (union busting contract pushing guys) and DALPA insiders need to stop with the hyperbole and quit downplaying all the downside.
You leave yourself these "outs" to weasel out of what you said later. For this reason, you cannot be taken seriously. It's just another form of skewing the data to drive perception. Half truths and selective snippets that you do happen to remember don't cut it anymore.
Hopefully the NC will put out something in the road show to explain this better. I'm not a fan of the changes but I can see why management is interested.
06-13-2015, 03:56 PM
#8498
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Power top
Posts: 2,959
Originally Posted by slowplay
C'mon, Man!
You said the NC got rolled and that you got slapped in the face. I showed you where to find you were incorrect.
Maybe it's time for some underboob or a pink panther gif.
You said the NC got rolled and that you got slapped in the face. I showed you where to find you were incorrect.
Maybe it's time for some underboob or a pink panther gif.
It's nice to see a minority position on the forum. CEO's paid 50 to 150% above his competition, billons in profits, billions in stock buy backs, billions in dividends. The airline has one third of the debt of AMR.
I/We think concessions are a little over the top in this environment. We can surpass AMR in per diem by .05 or we can pay a little more for training, a vacation day worth more. This is the time to get it.
I'm not scared of sending it back, we've never done it, but this is the time. After all, if you can put this together 6 months early, what's another 2 months. Scare tactics won't work. Not afraid of keeping the current contract and profit sharing.
Hey now.
06-13-2015, 03:59 PM
#8499
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by slowplay
At the MEC meeting the negotiating committee put up a bunch of slides on our sick leave use and its change over time. data provided) but both those properties have substantially more
Has it ever occurred to you that management does the same thing to Dalpa (cherry pick data points, misrepresent findings, and present fuzzy statistics) that You do to the line pilots during roads shows?
I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.
Why are you trying to push this POS? What's in it for you?
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