Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble (Post 1913112)

The federal government does what it does. Different subject for another time.

But why do we assume the burden? This is really bad negotiating when Delta is spending money like drunken sailors on the shareholder.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1912950)

Palette cleansing time. Sorry but the video won't embed.


https://www.youtube.com/embed/NK-T_t...layer_embedded


Carl

Originally Posted by ilinipilot (Post 1913103)

I posted this on chit chat. Thoughts


So the union is saying this TA will protect us with "downside protection". If air france pulls down an A380 we don't have to pull down two flights.

There is a huge problem with that argument. I ask you what is Air france/KLM going to pull down to? The smallest plane is a 330.

If you look at the fleet make up for Air France and KLM you see a fleet very wide-body dependent.
I used plane spotter and cross referenced Wikipedia. The numbers are slightly different so I posted both to be as open as possible. (I checked the air france and klm websites and they did not have the fleet broken down by numbers. ( I didn't use Alitalia because they are leaving the alliance).
I didn't paste that well sorry !!!!

From Planespotter - Wikipedia
Air France 777 - 66 - 62 (3 on order)
Air France 747 - 5 - 7 (says to be phased out)
Air France 380 - 10 - 10 (2 on order)
Air France 330 -15 - 19
Air France 340 - 13 - 13 ( to be phased out in 2017)
Air France 767 - 0 - 0
Air France 757 - 0 - 0
Air France 350 - no order data - 18 (on order)

KLM 777 - 25 (1 on order) - 23 (5 on order)
KLM 747 - 25 - 22
KLM 330 - 17 - 16
KLM 340 - 0 - 0
KLM 380 - 0 - 0
KLM 350 - no order data - 7 (on order)

What this shows is how wide-body dependent the fleets of KLM and AF are. If they pull down a 380 what are they going to pull down to? If its a 747, 777, or a 330 its still benefits us measuring with EASK since those are bigger/the same planes. If they pull down to a 350 or 330 it still benefits us because we have similar gauge equipment. At worst its an equal trade for us. The EASK measurement will still help us.

Now in the above scenario if they pull down a 380 to a 777, 787 350 with the block hour ratio what happens. Nothing its the same aircraft. A 380 is equal to a 757 as measure by block hours. Plus if KLM or air france leaves a market we have to pull out a flight to.

We want the EASK metric. It saves our jobs even in a downturn. They have much bigger gauge equipment currently and on order than we do. Or in the case of the 350 similar. The only reason to go to a block hour measurement is to give the company additional scope to cut trans atlantic capacity. (Since in a block hour measurement they are ahead 51.5% according to DTW update on 6-22).

Also a block hour measurement lets delta defer wide body atlantic flying to our competitors. It lets delta use smaller gauge aircraft and gives the highest paying jobs to AF and KLM.

Please tell me if I am wrong but I don't believe this TA give us much if any downside protection

Originally Posted by Flyarcticcat (Post 1913151)

When did voting open and when does it close?

Originally Posted by Klondike Bear (Post 1913246)

For NO voters it opens tomorrow at 10am and closes on the 10th.

For Yes voters it opens on July 11th.

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler (Post 1913126)

It's not negotiating. Our union is not negotiating on our behalf, they are working to pressure you into voting yes for what management is demanding. They work for management because they've been purchased. They do not work for us.

They do NOT work for us.

Carl

Originally Posted by Klondike Bear (Post 1913246)

For NO voters it opens tomorrow at 10am and closes on the 10th.

For Yes voters it opens on July 11th.