Sink,

I have to disagree. I can only speak about my process. Once the JV Settlement came out almost immediately followed by the TA I became skeptical. I read DALPA's first release about the TA I knew I needed more detail. I came to APC and Chitchat in order to see if there was something I missed. I knew there were guys that I respected that would be digging in deeper. I will admit that I was suspicious. Nothing good every comes that fast and easy.

When I saw comments from KR and HK, guys that really know their business on Chitchat and have lots of credibility, I knew I had homework. These aren't your standard blowhards. These guys have lived negotiations and contract.

From that point, I went to the DALPA website and started with Section 1. Then, I went to Section's 14 and 15. Once I read those, all highlighted in red. I was not happy. I realized that I needed to really dig in. Thus, began the journey. I read the other Sections. As I read each of these Sections I asked myself, how will the Company interpret this language?

I know you won't believe me when I say, I only gave Section 3 a glance initially. I've been around long enough to know the devil is in the details. Pay rates are easy to read. Contract language takes time and effort. I made that effort.

Please give us credit for reading the TA. It was concessionary. There wasn't any hiding that. It was going to come out. It was bad.

 

Of course you did Sink r8. You got paid flight pay loss to deliver that lopsided presentation at the lounges and here on APC. You're still giving it. You both expected it, and got paid for it.

I know you guys didn't expect opposition, but again you mischaracterize on purpose. It was not a NO "sales job." It was an airing of ALL the facts...good and bad. That's what killed the TA. Well that and the fact that you guys insulted everyone with the one-sided YES sales job.

Are you getting this guys? For all of you that think I've been too hard on guys like Sink r8 and Nestor, are you reading this? No voters didn't actually know what was in the TA! 65% of Delta pilots voted NO to a TA in which they didn't know the contents. You just can't make this stuff up.

In the end, it was a case of DALPA no longer being able to control the flow of information. The truth got out, and you guys got exposed for who you really are. Charlatans.

Carl

 

Complete misread and utter incompetence on your part Sink r8. Wrong from top to bottom.

Truth is we don't know what was in the survey. I can only go by what my reps and the NYC reps said when they stated the TA did NOT meet the survey demands, or the reps' direction.

You don't know that. I'll bet nobody was asking for money early...just money and no concessions. But since I haven't seen the survey either, I'm guessing as well.

And THAT'S the problem Sink r8. The negotiators DIDN'T follow the direction of the MEC. We wouldn't be here now had they done so.

Carl

 

Yes, I can see how that sounds condescending. My apologies. I don't think this was an ignorant vote. I think ALPA made a mistake telling people to vote unemotionally, because a lot of people were upset, and tired of hearing it. People ARE emotional when the company thinks so little of them, and so much of shareholders and executives, and they should be.

What I was alluding to is that the no sales-job was so effective at modifying the "facts", that almost everyone I spoke with didn't have the pay rates/PS conversion correct. Insofar as the NC sometimes sounded as though they were double-counting the pay and PS, a lot of the no-guys were saying that PS had been taken out. "Seldom" was not the right way to put it. I ran into smart guys that got the math correct, and also a lot of guys that didn't have even the basic payrate/PS dialed-in.

 

Thanks for the apology on behalf of this uninformed no voter. Funny, all you really talk about is the pay. Section 3 is far from the only one, and the vindictive (sec 14) and otherwise company heavy concessions were what led to the 65percent mandate. I only went to Embry-Riddle, and despite majoring in sprink break, I was able to read the contract all by myself sink r8!

 

I had the exact opposite experience, and I'd bet more representative. The "smart" guys were the ones who read it all, carefully, and came up with "no". The folks with pedestrian level knowledge were the "yes" guys. "My rep said I'd be crazy to vote no, and they've been doing this for years."


65-35.

 

They're doing no such thing. The process they insisted on was subverted...exactly like C2012. They're still insisting on the process...including the recall process.

His actions are way worse than that. You make him sound like a hapless doofus. He sold this thing for all he was worth...including lying about what was in it. Just like you did. And his last letter was still insulting and condescending.

Company screwed up and Donatelli screwed up. They're both trying now to minimize the damage to one another.

Carl

 

The backpeddling is causing a wake....

 

Only one thing killed that TA...the facts got out.

Yes you did Sink r8. You were here DEFENDING that very presentation as dead on accurate and URGING us to vote YES...while you were getting paid to do so.

Just yellin.

Carl

 

You're still not getting it Sink r8. You keep trying this subtle campaign to convince pilots that they made an emotional decision. That's the Harwood play. Insult pilots by calling them emotional in the hopes they'll make the "logical" decision by agreeing with the administration. It wasn't an emotional decision. It was a fact based decision. Yours and Donatelli's problem is that the facts got out. The only real anger has been when we realized that our own union lied to us. That's been emotional for many because they thought DALPA had their best interests at heart.

Well that apology sure didn't last long. There wasn't a NO sales job. There was a get out the facts campaign. Good and bad facts. The facts weren't modified. The pay rates/PS conversion formula had NOTHING to do with this. It was the concessions.

You haven't apologized at all. You're still claiming that we voted NO while not knowing what was in it the TA.

Believe it or not, I've been trying to save you from yourself Sink but you just won't listen. You keep digging and making it worse for yourself. Your too young to be completely destroying your credibility.

Carl