Your hatred for NWA is noted. Reminds me of the time I flew with the one of the ex NC guys on the 88 who really hated the NWA guys. We get it.

I love the NMB boogey man arguments though. They always don't work. You either show it in writing what they've said or simply shove it.

As to your argument, let's take a look at this:

So what are they talking about? Well, how much did Delta pay out in PS last year to all employees? 1.1B for 2014.

Now I don't know about Wall Streets numbers so let me do some paper napking math on Excel.

Pretend we'll reduce everyones PS by what we had in TA2015 and recompute the PS for 2014 and we're at what, $700M roughly for everyone? $400M savings. The new "$1.1B in cost increase" to the company for the pilots is roughly $300M a year right? So we're saving $100M. They got $100M, I got a $100M.

So now we've saved the company $100M, before we count the OE, Sick Leave and Scope concession savings.

TA2015, the gift that keeps giving...

 

FAIL! Maybe because C2012 had a greater net increase over the life of the contract? Was Donatelli even the slightly embarrassed that KR got a better deal in a lesser negotiating environment than he did, or had Moak hypnotized Donatelli into believing this was "all we could get"?



What's the exact number? "20%" or "more"? You seem to be "in the know" in D-ALPA land, please post the facts instead of throwing out an average number and then accusing the pilot group of misinformation on social media. BTW, the "misinformation on social media caused this TA to fail" is such a weak and tired argument, it shows the lack of (positive) gains in the actual TA. (There most definitely wasn't a lack of concessions.)

Please educate us lowly pilot swine who only know how to work the line?


Again, YOUR rhetoric and D-ALPA's rhetoric of "misinformation caused this TA to fail". This is an old, tired argument by a bunch of good ol' boys who got their gravy train derailed by FAILING to do their job on behalf of the Delta pilots. YOU and the rest of the Union were supposed to work for the PILOT group. That is why you collect dues. Instead, you were a negotiating arm of the Company, trying to sell the pilot group a sub-standard contact. When you and the other "YES" voters look in the mirror, YOU (Sir/Ma'am) should feel ashamed.

Let me say it one more time. This Tentative Agreement FAILED because of YOU, not the "misinformation" you choose to blame it on for your own self-justification.

Additionally, whose fault is it that there was "misinformation" out there in the first place? The pilot's who were searching for additional answers, or the Union's who only wanted to sell the superficial sales job like a used car salesperson? (Analogy: The union needed to "lift the hood" to show the prospective buyer there was an actual engine in the car. They chose not to, as the engine (TA substance) wasn't present.)

Again, a simple PRO/CON whitepaper would've sold this TA on its own merit's. The Union chose not to sell it on its own merits, but to try and sell it on, "this is the best we can do and if you vote this down, next will be the P.E.B." (All while "yelling" at the pilot group who he needed to vote yes for this deal.)

Neither is the pilot group. You and the rest of the Union "yes-men" better get on board with that, quickly.


Elliot

 

Bananie,

This book is for you and all of the rest of the "Salesmen" who - in your eyes - failed to get Richard his deal.

 

Kinda related: Stole this from the facebook before everything got purged in the great fire of TA failure.
View image

 

Well, I should have maintained my absence from here, this is where all logic and reasoning goes to die.

Shortly, $1.15 billion per year for three years is roughly $400 million. That is net of all profit sharing changes. The rest of your math is not worthy of a fifth grader, kind of like that phony fleet plan you put out during C2012. How much of that phony math came true.

Look, you guys keep up with this phony math and phony bluster. I don't hate NWA, I am comparing their results to the results from the DAL method of operation. Their performance was much, much worse. That is just real, simple math, it is not hate. Now we have the NWA method at DAL. Let's see how it works.

At the time of the merger, a NWA 757 Captain made $144 an hour with a 6% net DC for the entire pilot group. Now he is making $227 with a 15% DC. That is 67% over 7 years. Let's see what you guys do to beat that. See ya.

 

Since the subject came up... Proposed shift in PS plan was move 20% threshold from 2.5B to 6B. Credit Suisse... 10% of 3.5B is 350M. That is if the company changed the PS formula and simply kept the money. How does CS get $500M savings? OFG

 

It's a shame that you continue to think that the entire value of a contract should be based on dollars and cents. How much is it worth for a pilot to not feel pressured to go to work when he is sick? How much is it worth for a pilot to be able to bid a layover where his daughter goes to college?

It doesn't matter who I think got the better deal. What matters is who 65% of Delta pilots thought got a better deal. You still aren't paying attention.

What's interesting is you still argue from managements perspective. You seem to be very in tune with what they will do and what they will, or won't believe. That's great.

Unfortunately, you are woefully out of touch with the people you were supposed to represent. It's readily apparent that you think we are mindless sheep that should follow your every command, because you know better. But, have you flown the line lately? Delta has some of the most impressive pilots I've ever seen. Not just flying-wise, but the broad spectrum.

I've flown with several doctors, PhD's, economic experts, business experts, and heard of several lawyers being out there. We can read, we can comprehend, we can reason, a lot better than you think. We are not the fanatical, burn the house down, idiots you think we are. Everything you think we haven't thought through has been discussed on here.

It's your fault for not knowing and the fact that you continuously underestimate us, has lead to many of your downfalls. Welcome back to the line.

Maybe you should read what we write and learn something about us. Here's a good place to start. Let's see your head spin when, instead of talking down to us, you listen to us.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/de...-now-what.html

 

See bold.

Where did you get 3 years? Didn't the TA kick in in July and run to the end of 2018?

Isn't that 3.5 years? So $1.1 or $1.15B by 3.5 years?

 

1.15B / 3.5 years = 400M




Who knew?

 

You talk about my fleet plan. Let me take you down memory lane.

1. TA2012 comes out with lots of rj scope concessions including dropping the fleet size requirements and replaced it with a ratio that was said to be better and require growth.

2. The guy who evidently developed the language drops a math question that provides some important data.

3. I take it to the excel spreadsheet and realize the ratio doesn't require growth at all.

4. I show my math. Dude gets mad. Said that you can't replace 88s with 717s because of capacity. I show more math that it is but that's not as important as the hull count issue.

5. Barn door is open. That was my argument then.

6. Today we sit at 1.7 ratio. Per C2012, the min ratio is 1.35.

7. What does that mean? It means Delta could park 150 domestic jets, using data's provided by Bar, before we hit 1.35.



Barn door turns out to be wide open.

The ratio was a concession and still is even at 1.81.


Yes. I get bored winning but I still do it because I just can't help winning.