Do not vote Joe Thomas for C44
10-09-2015, 03:36 PM
#31
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 25
Originally Posted by notEnuf
Agreed. If the pilot confesses fraud OK.
By the same token, defense attorneys represent the guilty all the time and do so without compromising themselves. How he "knew" is pure speculation and completely unprofessional. A defense attorney never asks the question, Are you guilty? It doesn't matter he is obligated to defend his client. The DFR reference means: duty of fair representation regardless of bias and without conflict of interest.
DPA has been screaming this for years and whether you support them or not they are right. ALPA has an obligation to represent the pilots employing them (by payment of dues) and no other. Before you slap a disparaging DPA label on me, I am holding my expired DPA card for the one last chance to get it right.
By the same token, defense attorneys represent the guilty all the time and do so without compromising themselves. How he "knew" is pure speculation and completely unprofessional. A defense attorney never asks the question, Are you guilty? It doesn't matter he is obligated to defend his client. The DFR reference means: duty of fair representation regardless of bias and without conflict of interest.
DPA has been screaming this for years and whether you support them or not they are right. ALPA has an obligation to represent the pilots employing them (by payment of dues) and no other. Before you slap a disparaging DPA label on me, I am holding my expired DPA card for the one last chance to get it right.
Delta has a concern with sick leave abuse, wanted it addressed and showed the Union the data. The Union confirmed the data, realized there was/ is a problem and crafted a solution that not only protected our benefits but expanded them in exchange for a tightened up verification policy aimed at stemming abuse. Joe or whoever is elected will vigorously represent us when called but expect sick leave abuse to remain an issue that will be addressed.
10-09-2015, 03:53 PM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2011
Posts: 351
Originally Posted by Barca
I read Joe's letter and in it he maintains "I will support working with the company to protect those of us who are sick, while at the same time addressing sick leave abuse at Delta."
Delta has a concern with sick leave abuse, wanted it addressed and showed the Union the data. The Union confirmed the data, realized there was/ is a problem and crafted a solution that not only protected our benefits but expanded them in exchange for a tightened up verification policy aimed at stemming abuse. Joe or whoever is elected will vigorously represent us when called but expect sick leave abuse to remain an issue that will be addressed.
Delta has a concern with sick leave abuse, wanted it addressed and showed the Union the data. The Union confirmed the data, realized there was/ is a problem and crafted a solution that not only protected our benefits but expanded them in exchange for a tightened up verification policy aimed at stemming abuse. Joe or whoever is elected will vigorously represent us when called but expect sick leave abuse to remain an issue that will be addressed.
1. Believed the company data
2. Thinks it's his job to "get" the abusers.
3. Lumps No voters with DPA
4. Thinks TA15 was great.
5. Sounds like a total "I'm Joe great commander" tool bag.
10-09-2015, 04:11 PM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: stake holder ir.delta.com
Posts: 10,034
Originally Posted by Barca
I read Joe's letter and in it he maintains "I will support working with the company to protect those of us who are sick, while at the same time addressing sick leave abuse at Delta."
Delta has a concern with sick leave abuse, wanted it addressed and showed the Union the data. The Union confirmed the data, realized there was/ is a problem and crafted a solution that not only protected our benefits but expanded them in exchange for a tightened up verification policy aimed at stemming abuse. Joe or whoever is elected will vigorously represent us when called but expect sick leave abuse to remain an issue that will be addressed.
Delta has a concern with sick leave abuse, wanted it addressed and showed the Union the data. The Union confirmed the data, realized there was/ is a problem and crafted a solution that not only protected our benefits but expanded them in exchange for a tightened up verification policy aimed at stemming abuse. Joe or whoever is elected will vigorously represent us when called but expect sick leave abuse to remain an issue that will be addressed.
Last edited by notEnuf; 10-09-2015 at 04:13 PM. Reason: gramatical error using present participle
10-09-2015, 04:24 PM
#34
Straight QOL, homie
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: Record-Shattering Profit Facilitator
Posts: 4,202
Originally Posted by Barca
Of course he is your advocate when it comes to the PWA. And we are not talking about opinions. If you abuse sick leave and he KNOWS it, you are outside the protections afforded by the PWA and he is under no obligation to defend your abuse.
And what standard of proof should that person use to determine when sick leave becomes "abuse?"
It sounds like you want some unidentified person within DALPA to be the judge and jury. Whatever it takes to help the company, right? Wouldn't that make ALPA an extension of the CPO?
That's not how it works, my man. That's not why we pay dues.
Very interestesting first few posts. Are you by any chance aligned with management? Are you Rich Harwood? Or Joe Thomas?
10-09-2015, 06:00 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by Barca
I read Joe's letter and in it he maintains "I will support working with the company to protect those of us who are sick, while at the same time addressing sick leave abuse at Delta."
Delta has a concern with sick leave abuse, wanted it addressed and showed the Union the data. The Union confirmed the data, realized there was/ is a problem and crafted a solution that not only protected our benefits but expanded them in exchange for a tightened up verification policy aimed at stemming abuse. Joe or whoever is elected will vigorously represent us when called but expect sick leave abuse to remain an issue that will be addressed.
Delta has a concern with sick leave abuse, wanted it addressed and showed the Union the data. The Union confirmed the data, realized there was/ is a problem and crafted a solution that not only protected our benefits but expanded them in exchange for a tightened up verification policy aimed at stemming abuse. Joe or whoever is elected will vigorously represent us when called but expect sick leave abuse to remain an issue that will be addressed.
- what is the percent of guys who "abuse"?
- there was not ONE solution more user friendly than what was in TA15? Talk about a violation of the KISS principle
I'm not a member of the council you're discussing and have no dog in that fight. I guess I'm suggesting that a rerun of TA15 will fail too. We have to find a path to something the majority can live with (firm grasp of the obvious). Supporting the majority of honest pilots vs coming up with onerous verification procedures to catch the minority seems to me a better path.
Ferd
10-09-2015, 06:09 PM
#36
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Position: Sitting
Posts: 68
Guys. Most of you are missing my point. If the company feels that there is a sick leave abuse issue fine. It is up to them to provide the EVIDENCE!
Not some data about seasonal spikes. Not the company getting pizzed about Joe Pilot calling in sick after his vacation. Not even Joe Pilot calling in sick every first Monday in the month.
That is not evidence. If the company thinks that guys are calling is sick when they are not sick? I say, PROVE IT!
Why do we want to even consider helping them when they can not provide any real evidence? The onus is on them.
Next!
Not some data about seasonal spikes. Not the company getting pizzed about Joe Pilot calling in sick after his vacation. Not even Joe Pilot calling in sick every first Monday in the month.
That is not evidence. If the company thinks that guys are calling is sick when they are not sick? I say, PROVE IT!
Why do we want to even consider helping them when they can not provide any real evidence? The onus is on them.
Next!
10-09-2015, 06:39 PM
#38
Super Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 6,868
Originally Posted by Barca
I read Joe's letter and in it he maintains "I will support working with the company to protect those of us who are sick, while at the same time addressing sick leave abuse at Delta."
Delta has a concern with sick leave abuse, wanted it addressed and showed the Union the data. The Union confirmed the data, realized there was/ is a problem and crafted a solution that not only protected our benefits but expanded them in exchange for a tightened up verification policy aimed at stemming abuse. Joe or whoever is elected will vigorously represent us when called but expect sick leave abuse to remain an issue that will be addressed.
Delta has a concern with sick leave abuse, wanted it addressed and showed the Union the data. The Union confirmed the data, realized there was/ is a problem and crafted a solution that not only protected our benefits but expanded them in exchange for a tightened up verification policy aimed at stemming abuse. Joe or whoever is elected will vigorously represent us when called but expect sick leave abuse to remain an issue that will be addressed.
Fair enough, but there is a simple solution - lets adopt portions of the AMR and UCAL sick leave programs and modify our policy to align with their policy. Specifically:
1. Bank unused sick hours.
2. "Sick if needed" on reserve.
Then we can have a much more valid comparison of our sick leave usage. Because comparing our program with programs that contain one or both of the above is comparing apples to oranges.
Scoop
10-09-2015, 07:13 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: LAX ERA
Posts: 3,457
Originally Posted by poostain
So joe's got your vote, got it. I can't believe I'm reading that fellow pilots would even consider electing a guy who already
1. Believed the company data
2. Thinks it's his job to "get" the abusers.
3. Lumps No voters with DPA
4. Thinks TA15 was great.
5. Sounds like a total "I'm Joe great commander" tool bag.
1. Believed the company data
2. Thinks it's his job to "get" the abusers.
3. Lumps No voters with DPA
4. Thinks TA15 was great.
5. Sounds like a total "I'm Joe great commander" tool bag.
The DALPA and DPA guys BOTH think all no voters are DPA guys....and both are wrong
Ferd
10-09-2015, 07:35 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Left seat of a little plane
Posts: 2,397
Originally Posted by Purple Drank
It sounds like you think that someone at DALPA should sit in judgment of a member's behavior with regard to sick leave (and presumably other behavior). So exactly who at DALPA should make that call?
And what standard of proof should that person use to determine when sick leave becomes "abuse?"
It sounds like you want some unidentified person within DALPA to be the judge and jury. Whatever it takes to help the company, right? Wouldn't that make ALPA an extension of the CPO?
That's not how it works, my man. That's not why we pay dues.
Very interestesting first few posts. Are you by any chance aligned with management? Are you Rich Harwood? Or Joe Thomas?
And what standard of proof should that person use to determine when sick leave becomes "abuse?"
It sounds like you want some unidentified person within DALPA to be the judge and jury. Whatever it takes to help the company, right? Wouldn't that make ALPA an extension of the CPO?
That's not how it works, my man. That's not why we pay dues.
Very interestesting first few posts. Are you by any chance aligned with management? Are you Rich Harwood? Or Joe Thomas?
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