I'll have to do some research to see what they said, but the word from those against was quite clear. I do take offense to your assertion that I'm trying to use the contract against our fellow pilots. On the contrary, I am support of the assertion made by various reps that "any" pay raise to over 30% of the non-contract employees triggers a raise for us. What I am getting from you is that that may not be the case. Are you telling me that we may not get the raise we were promised during ratification? If so then you would be the one siding with management, not me.

 

Yep, you got me. I'm on management's side 100%. Very keen of you to figure that out.

 

I saw the resolution from C1 I believe. It states "The timing of the raises are an intentional act for the purpose of avoiding a comparison on or after January 1, 2016 which would provide for a 3% increase in pilot pay rates."

What I don't get is that the C1 reps previously stated that "any" raise to more than 30% would trigger a raise. Did they get that wrong?[/QUOTE]

Are you asking me if the reps are wrong or management is wrong in their actions to prevent a pay raise? What did the previous administration say about the subject?

Here's the quote from C1 I recall.

If the TA Fails, Then What?

When speaking to many pilots in the lounge, and we asked this question, you actually knew the answer. You continue to work under your current PWA. It is still in effect. It does not expire or vanish into thin air.

• The PWA remains amendable on December 31, 2015. I would fully expect both parties to continue working out their differences prior to that date, why wouldn’t we?
• Current Profit Sharing remains the same
• Current staffing remains the same
• Current sick-leave protections remains the same
• Current LCP OE trip-drop rules remain the same
• Current Scope and JV provisions remain in effect
• 3 B.4. language remains in effect, giving us up to 3% raises in the coming years
• The MEC will meet to determine a plan for moving forward to discuss any potential changes necessary to personnel, strategy, and logistics moving forward
• As we have already shown, we will continue to bargain in good faith as required under the RLA. Again why wouldn’t we? Why wouldn’t the company? Have any of their issues been addressed?
• March 1, 2016, is the date either party may request assistance from the NMB
• Finally, we will get to see the results of our hard work under the current PWA when second-quarter results are out, while we continue to we work on improvements

 

Falcon7 is using the logical equivalent of eliminating crime by posting "no crime allowed" signs everywhere.

The company is cheating. We want ALPA to pursue it.

Some of the old ALPA guard (including huey7) doesn't want to hurt the company's feelings.

 

Falcon,

I don't know I wasn't there, who knows? But here is 3B4 as I, a mere line pilot see it. NOTE: I am going by memory so if someone wants to look up the actual wording and add to this post be my guest.

We have a 3B4 section that under certain conditions will trigger a comparison between DAL and UAL/AMR.

It is the loose contractual wording of these conditions that allow the company to remain within the contract but not give us a raise.

For example - the non-contracts just received a raise but we already had our comparison earlier this year when we received a .55% raise. So we are now at parity with AMR/UAL.

AMR/UAL both receive a raise come January 01 but since the company gave the non-contracts a raise this year they can go all next year without giving them a raise and we will not have a comparison triggered.

So instead of a simply written 3B4, for example: Every June 15th a comparison will made between DAL employees and UAL/AMR to see if we merit a raise we have a very byzantine 3B4 that talks about rolling 18 month windows etc that basically allows the company to do exactly what they are now doing.

To some this may be a "loophole" to to others the company is avoiding the "intent" of the 3B4, to others they have better lawyers and contract people than we do - take your pick.

The piece de resistance of this whole section (actually 3B5) is the bonus clause. More accurately "BONE-US." It does not allow management to give the non contracts a bonus in lieu of a raise without giving the Pilots a similar bonus. Great you say. Wrong!

That clause ends in December so next year the Non- contracts can all receive a big juicy bonus in lieu of a raise and we get two things - Jack and Squat! Who did we have writing this up for us Laurel and Hardy or Abbott and Costello.

I do find it a little ironic that the company has no "moral" issue with themselves clearly avoiding the intent of the 3B4 raise because contractually they can, but call pilots who exercise their contractual sick leave "abusers."

Scoop - Just my 2 cents

 

Intent: http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/de...ml#post1999932

Just in case it was buried intentionally.

 

So my question on 3B4.

In A rolling 18 month period if 30% get a raise it gets triggered.

So say they give the Raise in December to over 30% of employees. That would trigger the clause if we choose to pursue but not get us anything due to the fact that our pay rates are in line with United and American.

What if the company gives 1% of the employees a raise January of 2016. I think that would also trigger a review in January due to over 30% of the company getting raises in the ROLLING 18 MONTH PERIOD.

It was previously stated that this rolling 18 month period was put into place to prevent several 20% group raises not triggering our recalculation. Dosn't any raise fall into this recalculation no matter how small a group?

 

Each and every raise triggers a review so long as 30% within the last 18 months were given a raise.

 

So if Delta gives one person a raise in 2016 it should trigger our review and raise.

 

Yes, which is why they are giving an excessive amount on Dec. 1. The next raise will give us a comparable raise up to 3%, which is the industry average in 2016. If a raise is given in 2017, then its 3% on top of that because the industry average increases again on Jan. 1, 2017.

If UAL gets a new deal it will go up from there again. And so on. As long as we trail the industry average we are banking a raise waiting for the company to give a raise to the other employees.