I guess John Malone lies in the Chairmans letters. As a average the UAL rates were below are TA rates. Because of pay banding a few categories were higher. We are asking for 30 percent or more then UAL. That's not going to happen overnight. It's going to take time. If you're not willing to wait you become part of the problem.

 

Hey Jerry that is a good post! There are a few things that we knew in 1998 at the negotiating committee level and the Strike Preparedness Committee level,that MAY or MAY NOT be the case now. We knew as early as May of 1997 that Gary Wilson was absolutely not going to come to any thing other than a "cost neutral" agreement with the pilots short of a strike. His ego was so large and he had such a knack for overplaying his hand that no other end result was really possible. Sleepy Ed????That remains to be seen...a total high road as carried forth under Captain Zoeller unquestionably worked. Alternatives like reinstating the withdrawal of enthusiasm are an unknown, that improperly carried out carry legal risks to the pilot group. However the alternatives may work...we don't know..

 

Why is a strike even mentioned. I get why strike is a tool, but one we will never be able to use and obsolete in my opinion. A strike does nothing but hurt our families not the company!

Parking brake is the most effective tool ( for any airline ) to effect change and we keep working. So why does anyone glorify or feel strike in this day and age is worth anything but a nuclear option which serves zero purpose? This is not a north v south cojones issue either. Just curious what could a strike possibly serve that would benefit us in todays current enviroment?

 

You have me a bit confused on what your strategy really is. In the past you stated that our leverage was backpacks off. Now you state the leverage is a strike via release from the NMB and take no other action.
UAL's current rates according to JM are 14% above ours overall or ½ percent below our TA rates. I am missing the leverage there also.
Why not follow your leadership instead of a constant barrage of contradictory posts.
This is going to take a long time. Follow your leadership and relax. You can survive a few years without a raise.



WhatNow,

Not sure about the leverage in question. but one thing you might be missing is that UAL achieved those pay-rates with essentially no concessions and no change to their Profit Sharing.

Saying our TA rates were above the new UAL rates is incorrect and misleading. In order to achieve those pay rates our PS was reduced.

UAL has a very similar PS formula to us that with similar profits would pay out with similar payments. I do think our PS does have a pension/401K advantage over the UAL PS but I am not sure what you are implying with your comparison of our failed to TA to the current UAL contract - are you saying that our failed TA was better than what UAL has now?

Additionally, UAL has a "Me-too" clause that would match any additional gains we achieve - I think the UAL guys did OK.

Scoop

 

Brag much? This kind of post doesn't make me very sympathetic to ensuring that this particular part of the contract remains intact. It's all good though. If it is still in place after we sign a contract, I'm bidding back on top of you and take those trips from ya.

 

I don't see it as any different from management's approach. Use whatever is available to you in the contract to extract the most value. 3.B.4. being put off for now, accounting practices to minimize profit sharing, building longer trips to keep people at work, etc.

I don't see it as bragging but making people aware of the loopholes that are to the advantage of the pilots. The more often we change the contract the less likely we are able to take advantage of the known circumstances. The hidden gems seem to always benefit management, these few opportunities should be fully exploited.

 

Strikes DO work...They are similar in logic to another quote to be unspoken here but it goes like this "When it is the solution it is the ONLY solution"..In that at some point if the other side will not come around and play ball it the last resort but it does work...And I take absolute exception that it does nothing but hurt our families. That is just plain wrong.There was no great suffering in the NWA strike of 1998. Unless you are out for 3 months or longer it is just a speed bump in life..Your post is thoroughly lacking in redeeming value.

 

Self help comes in many forms. When legally allowed to take action, it could be a wild cat strike or the threat of one. Say we were to have last names that end in a-m stay home on a given day, or have a card draw 1-7 and if your group is 1 Monday, 2 Tuesday etc. or just specific destinations for x number of days. We would keep working but make it impossible to plan. It's been done before.

 

YGTBSM

You can not listen to debate or contrary opinion? Simply have to attack anyone who has contrary opinion and alternative ideas? Your response makes me appreciate cooler heads making decisions and leading us to the next contract. If a strike happens, I will be there in full support. I will still feel at that time we could have had more impact on the company in the cockpit than on the street with no paycheck.... Long haul and all!

 

You are the problem. You've been voted off the island. Tough to take. The company paid down 10 billion in debt and bought back 5 billion is stock. Just about overnight.

You're 15% behind 12 year old pay rates with no retirement. Wait for what? Our CEO makes 20 million a year, our fellow employees received a historic pay raise and have been restored. Let's keep waiting. For what, more historic profits?

Can't keep waiting or time will pass you by. The past practice of appeasement has left us way behind. Your post reveals a lot, we can't be paid more than XYZ because it will hurt the company. That mentality is part of the Stockholm Syndrome Dalpa embraced. Dalpa thinks they're quasi management, part of the solution, only to be played like a fool. Or maybe Dalpa is comfortable with FPL and the status quo.

In any event, you a now part of the minority position. Whether we win or fail, the majority of the pilots you fly with, the guys in the fox hole, the pilots in the seat next to you, mostly disagree with the old way of doing things. They disagree with you.