DAL Class drops
06-17-2019, 07:03 AM
#3121
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,191
Originally Posted by TED74
I'm not sure why these shifts in seniority are called "artificial" or sometimes "going out of seniority"? If the bid package stinks, why wouldn't it go junior? The bottom of the 350 "flagship" is junior to the bottom of the 330 in DTW presumably for similar reasons. Despite paying better, 350 trip variety is almost nil and the 330 goes all over (in addition to AMS :-)).
So, in essence.....both positions are correct
06-17-2019, 08:11 AM
#3122
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,370
Originally Posted by Buck Rogers
"artificial" and "out of senority", make perfect sense depending on one's perspective. Usually the majority perspective is a stovepipe methodology....rack and stack according to pay and senority number(therefor "out of seniority" makes sense). However, you are correct in your question about titles, because when all the intangible QOL criteria are factored in....the equipment isn't as glamorous as the airbrushed centerfold appears(there are pimples, warts and hair where there shouldn't be)......consequently it is not "out of senority" at all....it just brings the QOL intangibles in.
So, in essence.....both positions are correct
So, in essence.....both positions are correct
I have similar reasons for disliking "artificially junior" as that is never the case. The aircraft may be junior to what you would expect, but it isn't artificially there. It is there because people senior don't want to bid it for one reason or another.
Another reason I dislike this is that it's already used as a reason to deride anyone displaced from those positions as "they were out of seniority anyway." With that logic you can say that any time someone is displaced they were "out of seniority" as obviously someone senior to them wanted into that seat.
06-17-2019, 09:41 AM
#3123
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by FangsF15
Kidding aside...
There have been times when the 757/767 Classic (we call the 7ER) has been available to new hires, but it's not typical. You may be able to get it at the 1-year point, depending on desired base (NYC good change, SEA low chance), only if you have to change base to leave your new-hire equipment, due to seat lock. Otherwise, you will likely wait 2 years or more.
The 767-400 is a separate, pure WB category, and will likely take at least that long, but only then to NYC (ATL is much more senior, 5 years at least). In the last few years, NYC -400's have been doing a fair amount of non-commutable LAX 2-days that have driven the category artificially junior. If they go back to a pure Int'l bid packet, I would expect it to go significantly more senior. Good Luck.
There have been times when the 757/767 Classic (we call the 7ER) has been available to new hires, but it's not typical. You may be able to get it at the 1-year point, depending on desired base (NYC good change, SEA low chance), only if you have to change base to leave your new-hire equipment, due to seat lock. Otherwise, you will likely wait 2 years or more.
The 767-400 is a separate, pure WB category, and will likely take at least that long, but only then to NYC (ATL is much more senior, 5 years at least). In the last few years, NYC -400's have been doing a fair amount of non-commutable LAX 2-days that have driven the category artificially junior. If they go back to a pure Int'l bid packet, I would expect it to go significantly more senior. Good Luck.
All of your analysis is spot on and the bottom 25% of the sl on the 400 in nyc is perhaps in a state of “non-traditional juniority due to a more recent aberrant shift in the bid package with noncommutable two day domestic trips that many commuters find abhorrent and untenable.”
06-17-2019, 06:07 PM
#3130
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Up front
Posts: 962
Originally Posted by PilotJ3
Last bid (the one in May), changed from available to NH to unavailable. 
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