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Old 09-26-2019, 08:01 AM
  #3371  
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Originally Posted by Buck Rogers View Post
all very valid points. I would like to add one more .....time zones. There are virtually no red eyes going east to west......who wants to take off at 11pm for a 5:30hr flight and arrive in LA at 0130hrs? Now, how about take off from LA at 11pm for a 5:00 flt(winds) and arrive in NYC at 0700hrs? I venture to say.....much greater demand.

So the question is.....would we(you) rather have more jobs which include red eyes or less jobs sans red eyes?
I donít think the argument was ďred eyes out of LAX are the devil and should be banned,Ē but rather, ďhave your eyes open to the possibility that a junior 320B in LAX will have a large number of red eyes and uncommutable trips by nature of the base.Ē

The jobs are there, itís just a matter of whether you would want to choose to do it, if you have other options. Far better to be able to rationally weigh the pros and cons of certain seats beyond tray table vs no tray table.
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Old 09-26-2019, 08:15 AM
  #3372  
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane View Post
I disagree. Thatís not the question. Itís not an either/or thing. You donít have to reduce the amount of red eyes to have more trips start during the day. Share the ďwealthĒ and have some red eyes in the middle of/end of other 320 bases. The question is..........why canít more trips start during the day?

Denny
Imagine the outrage over a 5-day trip with a daytime start, switch to redeye on day 2, day sleep and evening flight day 3, then return to morning departure on day 4/5.
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Old 09-26-2019, 08:29 AM
  #3373  
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Originally Posted by OOfff View Post
Imagine the outrage over a 5-day trip with a daytime start, switch to redeye on day 2, day sleep and evening flight day 3, then return to morning departure on day 4/5.
I cannot tell you how many trips I flew when based out of ATL that ended in a red eye getting in on the last day in the morning. Not real difficult.

There will always be complaining......that’s the pilot way. But there can be some solutions too.

Denny
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Old 09-26-2019, 08:47 AM
  #3374  
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane View Post
I cannot tell you how many trips I flew when based out of ATL that ended in a red eye getting in on the last day in the morning. Not real difficult.

There will always be complaining......thatís the pilot way. But there can be some solutions too.

Denny
A redeye finish is very different than an embedded redeye
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Old 09-26-2019, 08:54 AM
  #3375  
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I like redeyes at the beginning of a trip. Nice and commutable and I get to recover on company time vs getting home and being dead to the world.
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:21 AM
  #3376  
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Originally Posted by OOfff View Post
A redeye finish is very different than an embedded redeye
Exactly. I prefer to recover on company time and get home feeling good. Finishing on a red eye wastes my day off for recovery.
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:35 AM
  #3377  
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Originally Posted by Funk View Post
I donít think the argument was ďred eyes out of LAX are the devil and should be banned,Ē but rather, ďhave your eyes open to the possibility that a junior 320B in LAX will have a large number of red eyes and uncommutable trips by nature of the base.Ē

The jobs are there, itís just a matter of whether you would want to choose to do it, if you have other options. Far better to be able to rationally weigh the pros and cons of certain seats beyond tray table vs no tray table.
That was EXACTLY my point.
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Old 09-26-2019, 09:38 AM
  #3378  
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane View Post
The question is..........why canít more trips start during the day?

Denny
My best guess is that a solution with lots of daytime starts for PAX pairings Will drastically increase costs through increased credit and hotel stays.

If commutability and other rotation construction items are a high priority for us, then some negotiating capital will have to be spent on getting some contractual authority over rotation construction.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:41 PM
  #3379  
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Originally Posted by Denny Crane View Post
I cannot tell you how many trips I flew when based out of ATL that ended in a red eye getting in on the last day in the morning. Not real difficult.

There will always be complaining......thatís the pilot way. But there can be some solutions too.

Denny
I canít tell you how many times I flew a red eye into ATL and sat for two hours and then flew another leg to the layover mid rotation. Not fun and never done now.
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Old 09-26-2019, 02:46 PM
  #3380  
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Originally Posted by Buck Rogers View Post
all very valid points. I would like to add one more .....time zones. There are virtually no red eyes going east to west......who wants to take off at 11pm for a 5:30hr flight and arrive in LA at 0130hrs? Now, how about take off from LA at 11pm for a 5:00 flt(winds) and arrive in NYC at 0700hrs? I venture to say.....much greater demand.

So the question is.....would we(you) rather have more jobs which include red eyes or less jobs sans red eyes?
Evidently a lot of people take that 1030pm flight to the west coast. I know. I look at the end times and think, oh, 12pm finish in socal. Great.

Forgot to do the math. Dang.

There are also some late departures in the afternoon out of lax, like a 5pm and I thought something later in the summer.

I once parked at 1230a in atl and saw a 321 going to lax at 0130 because of irops. I looked it up and it was an atl crew. Ouch.
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