DGI Dead in the water?
05-26-2018, 03:14 PM
#271
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,659
It boggles the mind why Delta is holding onto such stringent hiring practices. There is no proven upside to it and does nothing for them that I can see.
In regards to having a flow, it is silly you don’t have one given who owns you, who’s passengers your flying around in who’s airplanes. Flows are under six years(projected) for a fairly large group at the AA WH. Wish you guys had the same.
In regards to having a flow, it is silly you don’t have one given who owns you, who’s passengers your flying around in who’s airplanes. Flows are under six years(projected) for a fairly large group at the AA WH. Wish you guys had the same.
05-26-2018, 03:30 PM
#272
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 527
Originally Posted by Cyio
It boggles the mind why Delta is holding onto such stringent hiring practices. There is no proven upside to it and does nothing for them that I can see.
In regards to having a flow, it is silly you don’t have one given who owns you, who’s passengers your flying around in who’s airplanes. Flows are under six years(projected) for a fairly large group at the AA WH. Wish you guys had the same.
In regards to having a flow, it is silly you don’t have one given who owns you, who’s passengers your flying around in who’s airplanes. Flows are under six years(projected) for a fairly large group at the AA WH. Wish you guys had the same.
A potential reason would be a difficulty staffing Endeavor, in which case they could give a more favorable program to Endeavor as an enticement. But that reason does not presently exist.
Last edited by vessbot; 05-26-2018 at 04:05 PM.
05-26-2018, 04:09 PM
#273
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by Cyio
It boggles the mind why Delta is holding onto such stringent hiring practices. There is no proven upside to it and does nothing for them that I can see.
In regards to having a flow, it is silly you don’t have one given who owns you, who’s passengers your flying around in who’s airplanes. Flows are under six years(projected) for a fairly large group at the AA WH. Wish you guys had the same.
In regards to having a flow, it is silly you don’t have one given who owns you, who’s passengers your flying around in who’s airplanes. Flows are under six years(projected) for a fairly large group at the AA WH. Wish you guys had the same.
05-26-2018, 06:27 PM
#274
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: FIRE ALPA
Posts: 3,082
Originally Posted by CBreezy
You do have a better path to Delta. You have the best path. And, since you know the Delta way, the interview should be easy. You have the best pay in the country. You have the fastest route to Delta and the best travel benefits. You aren't getting a staple or a flow. That just isn't happening. So, yes, you'll have to prepare like everyone else.
05-26-2018, 06:51 PM
#275
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2013
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by VoiceOfReason
You're joking right? Please tell me you didn't honestly post a response like this on a forum about career progression to an airline that has excruciatingly high standards of its pilot candidates...and expect to be taken seriously.
05-27-2018, 05:19 AM
#277
Rodeo clown
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Position: Tractor seat
Posts: 703
Originally Posted by Cyio
It boggles the mind why Delta is holding onto such stringent hiring practices. There is no proven upside to it and does nothing for them that I can see.
In regards to having a flow, it is silly you don’t have one given who owns you, who’s passengers your flying around in who’s airplanes. Flows are under six years(projected) for a fairly large group at the AA WH. Wish you guys had the same.
In regards to having a flow, it is silly you don’t have one given who owns you, who’s passengers your flying around in who’s airplanes. Flows are under six years(projected) for a fairly large group at the AA WH. Wish you guys had the same.
Why would Delta do this? Really?!?
1) Call it vanity, but they get to continue to tell themselves that they get to hire the best pilots available, choosing and poaching from ALL of the available candidates. Look at DL’s hiring stats. They have plenty of qualified pilots applying. Why would they lock themselves into anything but the most token of guarantees to bring in EDV pilots while military pilots are plentiful and cheap and the vast majority of regional 121 and all of the 135 world aren’t covered by a flow to another major?
2) Related to 1, Delta HR doesn’t have to stoop to accepting pilots from a “regional” (say that in a condescending tone) that were hired by said “regional HR.”
3) Related to 1, EDV pilot’s that interviewed early on with company sponsored interviews, their HR liaisons that coached them, accounted for themselves rather poorly with all the talk of “it’s a formality really, just a handshake and a chat. No problem.” Pilots that mailed in their effort, didn’t show for interviews, or acted entitled (or insufficiently humble when bowing to kiss Delta HR’s ring) hurt themselves and all other EDV pilots by giving Delta HR any evidence to say that they need to continue to stand as guardians against the unbathed masses of “regional” pilots.
Lastly, and this is purely personal anecdote. I did a short touch and go at EDV after retiring from the military and before moving on to mainline. I can tell you my experience of talking to pretty good EDV pilots that were passed over by Delta was that none of the passed over pilots seemed to grasp how important prepping for the interview really was, even after getting turned down with a 6 month re-interview invitation. By contrast, my military bubbas encouraging me to come to mainline were adamant about test and interview prep as a friendly prerequisite to the internal recommendation so that I’d be successful. That approach is as much a cultural heritage from a military career (never start a fight or engagement that you don’t already know the outcome, either because you know you’re going to win or your sacrifice is necessary), but I prepped and studied my butt off. The result was that after the adrenaline of the two day process was over, it was easy to say that it was actually pretty low threat. I saw mil friends one day ahead of me to interview and one day behind me, and our interview groups were >75% military, all whom were hired, and all felt like they were over-prepared. The others, as a general rule, had not spent as much time, money, or effort on prep, felt like the testing was harder than they expected, that the got beat up more in the HR portion, and were overall about 50/50 on CJO vice invitation for 6 month return or a total “thank you for your time.” Let me be clear that in my short interaction with these others, or what was related by friends, the only difference I could see was how much effort had gone into prep versus mil guys.
My opinion, imperfect and ignorant as it is, is that until every SSP or DGI participant shows up to interview 100% prepared (test prep, HR prep, and with a convincing balance of humble and confidence), Delta HR will always want to protect their turf by holding up the example of a few clowns that accounted poorly for themselves and hurt the EDV name in the process.
.02 rant over.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
05-27-2018, 05:35 AM
#278
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by Funk
Why would Delta do this? Really?!?
1) Call it vanity, but they get to continue to tell themselves that they get to hire the best pilots available, choosing and poaching from ALL of the available candidates. Look at DL’s hiring stats. They have plenty of qualified pilots applying. Why would they lock themselves into anything but the most token of guarantees to bring in EDV pilots while military pilots are plentiful and cheap and the vast majority of regional 121 and all of the 135 world aren’t covered by a flow to another major?
2) Related to 1, Delta HR doesn’t have to stoop to accepting pilots from a “regional” (say that in a condescending tone) that were hired by said “regional HR.”
3) Related to 1, EDV pilot’s that interviewed early on with company sponsored interviews, their HR liaisons that coached them, accounted for themselves rather poorly with all the talk of “it’s a formality really, just a handshake and a chat. No problem.” Pilots that mailed in their effort, didn’t show for interviews, or acted entitled (or insufficiently humble when bowing to kiss Delta HR’s ring) hurt themselves and all other EDV pilots by giving Delta HR any evidence to say that they need to continue to stand as guardians against the unbathed masses of “regional” pilots.
Lastly, and this is purely personal anecdote. I did a short touch and go at EDV after retiring from the military and before moving on to mainline. I can tell you my experience of talking to pretty good EDV pilots that were passed over by Delta was that none of the passed over pilots seemed to grasp how important prepping for the interview really was, even after getting turned down with a 6 month re-interview invitation. By contrast, my military bubbas encouraging me to come to mainline were adamant about test and interview prep as a friendly prerequisite to the internal recommendation so that I’d be successful. That approach is as much a cultural heritage from a military career (never start a fight or engagement that you don’t already know the outcome, either because you know you’re going to win or your sacrifice is necessary), but I prepped and studied my butt off. The result was that after the adrenaline of the two day process was over, it was easy to say that it was actually pretty low threat. I saw mil friends one day ahead of me to interview and one day behind me, and our interview groups were >75% military, all whom were hired, and all felt like they were over-prepared. The others, as a general rule, had not spent as much time, money, or effort on prep, felt like the testing was harder than they expected, that the got beat up more in the HR portion, and were overall about 50/50 on CJO vice invitation for 6 month return or a total “thank you for your time.” Let me be clear that in my short interaction with these others, or what was related by friends, the only difference I could see was how much effort had gone into prep versus mil guys.
My opinion, imperfect and ignorant as it is, is that until every SSP or DGI participant shows up to interview 100% prepared (test prep, HR prep, and with a convincing balance of humble and confidence), Delta HR will always want to protect their turf by holding up the example of a few clowns that accounted poorly for themselves and hurt the EDV name in the process.
.02 rant over.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1) Call it vanity, but they get to continue to tell themselves that they get to hire the best pilots available, choosing and poaching from ALL of the available candidates. Look at DL’s hiring stats. They have plenty of qualified pilots applying. Why would they lock themselves into anything but the most token of guarantees to bring in EDV pilots while military pilots are plentiful and cheap and the vast majority of regional 121 and all of the 135 world aren’t covered by a flow to another major?
2) Related to 1, Delta HR doesn’t have to stoop to accepting pilots from a “regional” (say that in a condescending tone) that were hired by said “regional HR.”
3) Related to 1, EDV pilot’s that interviewed early on with company sponsored interviews, their HR liaisons that coached them, accounted for themselves rather poorly with all the talk of “it’s a formality really, just a handshake and a chat. No problem.” Pilots that mailed in their effort, didn’t show for interviews, or acted entitled (or insufficiently humble when bowing to kiss Delta HR’s ring) hurt themselves and all other EDV pilots by giving Delta HR any evidence to say that they need to continue to stand as guardians against the unbathed masses of “regional” pilots.
Lastly, and this is purely personal anecdote. I did a short touch and go at EDV after retiring from the military and before moving on to mainline. I can tell you my experience of talking to pretty good EDV pilots that were passed over by Delta was that none of the passed over pilots seemed to grasp how important prepping for the interview really was, even after getting turned down with a 6 month re-interview invitation. By contrast, my military bubbas encouraging me to come to mainline were adamant about test and interview prep as a friendly prerequisite to the internal recommendation so that I’d be successful. That approach is as much a cultural heritage from a military career (never start a fight or engagement that you don’t already know the outcome, either because you know you’re going to win or your sacrifice is necessary), but I prepped and studied my butt off. The result was that after the adrenaline of the two day process was over, it was easy to say that it was actually pretty low threat. I saw mil friends one day ahead of me to interview and one day behind me, and our interview groups were >75% military, all whom were hired, and all felt like they were over-prepared. The others, as a general rule, had not spent as much time, money, or effort on prep, felt like the testing was harder than they expected, that the got beat up more in the HR portion, and were overall about 50/50 on CJO vice invitation for 6 month return or a total “thank you for your time.” Let me be clear that in my short interaction with these others, or what was related by friends, the only difference I could see was how much effort had gone into prep versus mil guys.
My opinion, imperfect and ignorant as it is, is that until every SSP or DGI participant shows up to interview 100% prepared (test prep, HR prep, and with a convincing balance of humble and confidence), Delta HR will always want to protect their turf by holding up the example of a few clowns that accounted poorly for themselves and hurt the EDV name in the process.
.02 rant over.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Other than that, well stated. I don't think getting a job worth millions over 30 years is something they should just give to you because you flew for a regional. You have to put in the hard work up front to show that you want to be there. Two friends of mine were in the same interview group. One guy the yes and the other got the no thanks. When I asked the friend who passed what happened, he said the other guy just didn't seem like he was preparing at all. There are thousands of apps out there, whether you believe they exist or not. You are given an opportunity to show you want to work at their company so show up prepared.
05-27-2018, 05:58 AM
#279
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,659
Originally Posted by Funk
Why would Delta do this? Really?!?
1) Call it vanity, but they get to continue to tell themselves that they get to hire the best pilots available, choosing and poaching from ALL of the available candidates. Look at DL’s hiring stats. They have plenty of qualified pilots applying. Why would they lock themselves into anything but the most token of guarantees to bring in EDV pilots while military pilots are plentiful and cheap and the vast majority of regional 121 and all of the 135 world aren’t covered by a flow to another major?
2) Related to 1, Delta HR doesn’t have to stoop to accepting pilots from a “regional” (say that in a condescending tone) that were hired by said “regional HR.”
3) Related to 1, EDV pilot’s that interviewed early on with company sponsored interviews, their HR liaisons that coached them, accounted for themselves rather poorly with all the talk of “it’s a formality really, just a handshake and a chat. No problem.” Pilots that mailed in their effort, didn’t show for interviews, or acted entitled (or insufficiently humble when bowing to kiss Delta HR’s ring) hurt themselves and all other EDV pilots by giving Delta HR any evidence to say that they need to continue to stand as guardians against the unbathed masses of “regional” pilots.
Lastly, and this is purely personal anecdote. I did a short touch and go at EDV after retiring from the military and before moving on to mainline. I can tell you my experience of talking to pretty good EDV pilots that were passed over by Delta was that none of the passed over pilots seemed to grasp how important prepping for the interview really was, even after getting turned down with a 6 month re-interview invitation. By contrast, my military bubbas encouraging me to come to mainline were adamant about test and interview prep as a friendly prerequisite to the internal recommendation so that I’d be successful. That approach is as much a cultural heritage from a military career (never start a fight or engagement that you don’t already know the outcome, either because you know you’re going to win or your sacrifice is necessary), but I prepped and studied my butt off. The result was that after the adrenaline of the two day process was over, it was easy to say that it was actually pretty low threat. I saw mil friends one day ahead of me to interview and one day behind me, and our interview groups were >75% military, all whom were hired, and all felt like they were over-prepared. The others, as a general rule, had not spent as much time, money, or effort on prep, felt like the testing was harder than they expected, that the got beat up more in the HR portion, and were overall about 50/50 on CJO vice invitation for 6 month return or a total “thank you for your time.” Let me be clear that in my short interaction with these others, or what was related by friends, the only difference I could see was how much effort had gone into prep versus mil guys.
My opinion, imperfect and ignorant as it is, is that until every SSP or DGI participant shows up to interview 100% prepared (test prep, HR prep, and with a convincing balance of humble and confidence), Delta HR will always want to protect their turf by holding up the example of a few clowns that accounted poorly for themselves and hurt the EDV name in the process.
.02 rant over.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1) Call it vanity, but they get to continue to tell themselves that they get to hire the best pilots available, choosing and poaching from ALL of the available candidates. Look at DL’s hiring stats. They have plenty of qualified pilots applying. Why would they lock themselves into anything but the most token of guarantees to bring in EDV pilots while military pilots are plentiful and cheap and the vast majority of regional 121 and all of the 135 world aren’t covered by a flow to another major?
2) Related to 1, Delta HR doesn’t have to stoop to accepting pilots from a “regional” (say that in a condescending tone) that were hired by said “regional HR.”
3) Related to 1, EDV pilot’s that interviewed early on with company sponsored interviews, their HR liaisons that coached them, accounted for themselves rather poorly with all the talk of “it’s a formality really, just a handshake and a chat. No problem.” Pilots that mailed in their effort, didn’t show for interviews, or acted entitled (or insufficiently humble when bowing to kiss Delta HR’s ring) hurt themselves and all other EDV pilots by giving Delta HR any evidence to say that they need to continue to stand as guardians against the unbathed masses of “regional” pilots.
Lastly, and this is purely personal anecdote. I did a short touch and go at EDV after retiring from the military and before moving on to mainline. I can tell you my experience of talking to pretty good EDV pilots that were passed over by Delta was that none of the passed over pilots seemed to grasp how important prepping for the interview really was, even after getting turned down with a 6 month re-interview invitation. By contrast, my military bubbas encouraging me to come to mainline were adamant about test and interview prep as a friendly prerequisite to the internal recommendation so that I’d be successful. That approach is as much a cultural heritage from a military career (never start a fight or engagement that you don’t already know the outcome, either because you know you’re going to win or your sacrifice is necessary), but I prepped and studied my butt off. The result was that after the adrenaline of the two day process was over, it was easy to say that it was actually pretty low threat. I saw mil friends one day ahead of me to interview and one day behind me, and our interview groups were >75% military, all whom were hired, and all felt like they were over-prepared. The others, as a general rule, had not spent as much time, money, or effort on prep, felt like the testing was harder than they expected, that the got beat up more in the HR portion, and were overall about 50/50 on CJO vice invitation for 6 month return or a total “thank you for your time.” Let me be clear that in my short interaction with these others, or what was related by friends, the only difference I could see was how much effort had gone into prep versus mil guys.
My opinion, imperfect and ignorant as it is, is that until every SSP or DGI participant shows up to interview 100% prepared (test prep, HR prep, and with a convincing balance of humble and confidence), Delta HR will always want to protect their turf by holding up the example of a few clowns that accounted poorly for themselves and hurt the EDV name in the process.
.02 rant over.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Please understand, this isn’t an anti-military rant as you would be hard pressed to find a bigger patriot then myself. However, I disagree with the concept that a military trained pilot is somehow better equipped to handle commercial 121 flying than say a civi that has flown for ten years in the public realm. Sure, if we were going to war it would make perfect sense, however MSP turns don’t require the type of training you learn in the military. I have also heard the argument that the mindset of a military person is what they want and while I can see this, I also feel this goes away, at least in terms of an advantage, soon after training. This isn’t a hard job, certainly not hard enough that a non military pilot can’t handle. There is no statistical data that suggests a military pilot makes for a safer environment in the 121 world.
I can see how this mindset originated because back in the day the military was really the only reliable source of candidates, that however has changed and is no longer valid. While I am a pro veteran I am also a pro capitalist and want companies to be able to set their own standards, so this is just more of a discussion for the sake of discussing.
Anyway, Delta is Delta and I have zero desire to fly for them. It has nothing to do with my ability to potentially make the interview but rather the culture that breeds their and the bases. To each their own however and I wish everyone the best of luck finding the right spot for themselves.
Again I want to state that this isn’t meant to deride military guys and gals but rather a thought exercise on our industry mindset and its future.
05-27-2018, 06:11 AM
#280
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,067
Originally Posted by Cyio
I get what you are saying, I really do, I just don’t think that it is a practical way of doing things.
Please understand, this isn’t an anti-military rant as you would be hard pressed to find a bigger patriot then myself. However, I disagree with the concept that a military trained pilot is somehow better equipped to handle commercial 121 flying than say a civi that has flown for ten years in the public realm. Sure, if we were going to war it would make perfect sense, however MSP turns don’t require the type of training you learn in the military. I have also heard the argument that the mindset of a military person is what they want and while I can see this, I also feel this goes away, at least in terms of an advantage, soon after training. This isn’t a hard job, certainly not hard enough that a non military pilot can’t handle. There is no statistical data that suggests a military pilot makes for a safer environment in the 121 world.
I can see how this mindset originated because back in the day the military was really the only reliable source of candidates, that however has changed and is no longer valid. While I am a pro veteran I am also a pro capitalist and want companies to be able to set their own standards, so this is just more of a discussion for the sake of discussing.
Anyway, Delta is Delta and I have zero desire to fly for them. It has nothing to do with my ability to potentially make the interview but rather the culture that breeds their and the bases. To each their own however and I wish everyone the best of luck finding the right spot for themselves.
Again I want to state that this isn’t meant to deride military guys and gals but rather a thought exercise on our industry mindset and its future.
Please understand, this isn’t an anti-military rant as you would be hard pressed to find a bigger patriot then myself. However, I disagree with the concept that a military trained pilot is somehow better equipped to handle commercial 121 flying than say a civi that has flown for ten years in the public realm. Sure, if we were going to war it would make perfect sense, however MSP turns don’t require the type of training you learn in the military. I have also heard the argument that the mindset of a military person is what they want and while I can see this, I also feel this goes away, at least in terms of an advantage, soon after training. This isn’t a hard job, certainly not hard enough that a non military pilot can’t handle. There is no statistical data that suggests a military pilot makes for a safer environment in the 121 world.
I can see how this mindset originated because back in the day the military was really the only reliable source of candidates, that however has changed and is no longer valid. While I am a pro veteran I am also a pro capitalist and want companies to be able to set their own standards, so this is just more of a discussion for the sake of discussing.
Anyway, Delta is Delta and I have zero desire to fly for them. It has nothing to do with my ability to potentially make the interview but rather the culture that breeds their and the bases. To each their own however and I wish everyone the best of luck finding the right spot for themselves.
Again I want to state that this isn’t meant to deride military guys and gals but rather a thought exercise on our industry mindset and its future.
I do, however, disagree with your premise. While military pilots have no experience operating within a 121 environment, the vast majority are highly trained and skilled aviators. They practice emergency and abnormal procedures far more than their civilian counterparts. They operate their aircraft in the corners of their envelopes oftentimes in hostile environments. Just because they aren't skilled in doing a FSD turn doesn't mean that they haven't carried passengers safely to an airport and flown an approach down to mins.
Yes, 121 flying and customer service is a different experience than carrying paratroopers to drop zones. That doesn't mean that those particular experiences hold no aviation value. The easiest thing a pilot does is fly point a to b, no malfunctions, in VFR. I've had more of those flights in the past year than I care to count. Adding complexities to the flight, things other than point to point flying and being able to handle the situation calmly is why they hire you. You aren't there to push Autopilot and drink coffee. You are there for when things start deviating from the norm and that's what military pilots train for and do far more often than we do
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
