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as a original 9e pilot, I heard from several XJ guys in the know that DL wanted to axe the entire flow, or not let people who bypassed be eligible again. it was only after some shenanigans from the XJ union guys that flow was kept.....but by some "miracle" the flow ended like 2 or 3 numbers junior to the XJ negotiators. Eating their young to save themselves.Originally Posted by jethikoki
You say I did I say ALPA did NOT and where ALPA and DALPA got in bed with their DAL management to work against a fellow ALPA member! So we can agree to disagree. BTW, I was at PNCL not Mesaba so it was not applicable to me but it bothers me to see something like this. It may be legal but it is less then honorable and ALPA and DALPA should have taken higher ground and worked to honor the agreements NWA had with a fellow ALPA member. What do you think would happen if only 90% of NWA pilots would have been allowed to go to DAL after the merger? I guess anything is ok until it will affect you.
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Have you read the "Restructured Pinnacle Pilot Collective Bargaining Agreement" , Paragraph 2, Establishing Enhanced Career Progression, Section a.b.c.d.e. and f. dealing with the Streamline Selection Process (SSP) - NOT FLOW. Originally Posted by IBPilot
. . . shenanigans from the XJ union guys that flow was kept.....but by some "miracle" the flow ended like 2 or 3 numbers junior to the XJ negotiators. Eating their young to save themselves.
I believe it supersedes any NWA / Mesaba agreement.
If not a copy is available here: http://pclmec.alpa.org/LinkClick.asp...t=2Ei4nSPWtyU=
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I believe it supersedes any NWA / Mesaba agreement.
If not a copy is available here: http://pclmec.alpa.org/LinkClick.asp...t=2Ei4nSPWtyU=
I'm not talking about SSP in any way, shape or form. Just the XJ flow when DL took over from NWA several years before the SSP. Rephrase your question so I can see what I am missing? I'm just passing along what I heard from many XJ guys about the NWA vs DL flow...Originally Posted by Ftrooppilot
Have you read the "Restructured Pinnacle Pilot Collective Bargaining Agreement" , Paragraph 2, Establishing Enhanced Career Progression, Section a.b.c.d.e. and f. dealing with the Streamline Selection Process (SSP) - NOT FLOW. I believe it supersedes any NWA / Mesaba agreement.
If not a copy is available here: http://pclmec.alpa.org/LinkClick.asp...t=2Ei4nSPWtyU=
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Originally Posted by IBPilot
as a original 9e pilot, I heard from several XJ guys in the know that DL wanted to axe the entire flow, it was only after some shenanigans from the XJ union guys that flow was kept.....but by some "miracle" the flow ended like 2 or 3 numbers junior to the XJ negotiators. Eating their young to save themselves.
Mesaba negotiators went for gold and were kicked out of the room. New Mesaba guys went in and tried to salvage what they could. They resulting flow ended just Senior to some of them.
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Originally Posted by jethikoki
You say I did I say ALPA did NOT and where ALPA and DALPA got in bed with their DAL management to work against a fellow ALPA member! So we can agree to disagree. BTW, I was at PNCL not Mesaba so it was not applicable to me but it bothers me to see something like this. It may be legal but it is less then honorable and ALPA and DALPA should have taken higher ground and worked to honor the agreements NWA had with a fellow ALPA member. What do you think would happen if only 90% of NWA pilots would have been allowed to go to DAL after the merger? I guess anything is ok until it will affect you.
I hope this was intended towards me, I advocated against the whipsaw and games my whole career. That being said I keep in mind the difference between what is "good" and "legal" in business. I hate it as much as the next pilot but its a long row to hoe to fix these problems.
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thanks, that's basically what I was getting at, nothing with the SSP. But I was told it ended just junior to them, oh well, dang rumors.Originally Posted by Imapilot2
Mesaba negotiators went for gold and were kicked out of the room. New Mesaba guys went in and tried to salvage what they could. They resulting flow ended just Senior to some of them.
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Merger or acquisition of another legacy (NWA) is an entirely different animal. We are talking about standards for newhire pilots today at Delta Air Lines.Originally Posted by jethikoki
If the degree was/is so important then why are those pilots without a degree allowed to keep their jobs during a merger or acquisition? I know, just a weeding tool for hiring pilots but still makes you wonder about standards and fairness in the system.
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Some have negative feelings about a flow ok, but shouldn't agreements be honored? Mesaba Airlines had a flow agreement with NWA. Why wasn't ALL Mesaba pilots on property after the DAL NWA merger was complete allowed to flow to DAL. Only a small percentage were allowed. Wonder what would happen if DAL only allowed a small percentage of NWA pilots to keep their jobs at DAL or not honor their agreement. How does Lee Moak face the Mesaba pilots and explain why he chose not to fight DAL to honor their agreement all the while professing unity? Double standards maybe or more unity for mainline pilots?
No offense, you're talking about Delta merging with another legacy airline with similar equipment (a merger of equivalent size) versus a very small regional which is nothing more than just contract feed.Some have negative feelings about a flow ok, but shouldn't agreements be honored? Mesaba Airlines had a flow agreement with NWA. Why wasn't ALL Mesaba pilots on property after the DAL NWA merger was complete allowed to flow to DAL. Only a small percentage were allowed. Wonder what would happen if DAL only allowed a small percentage of NWA pilots to keep their jobs at DAL or not honor their agreement. How does Lee Moak face the Mesaba pilots and explain why he chose not to fight DAL to honor their agreement all the while professing unity? Double standards maybe or more unity for mainline pilots?
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Pinnacle/Endeavor Airlines did not need to be in bankruptcy except DAL wanted it to be. I agree with some of your statements BB but history has also demonstrated the playing field IS NOT level for regional pilots. When regional pilots try to seek or gain opportunities in bad situations you get chastised rather then equal and fair treatment. It was probably wrong and inappropriate if there was a secret back door agreement that DALPA was not informed or kept out of the loop but then how much effort would PNCL pilots get from DALPA if the company was liquidated? It was your airline that wanted PNCL in bankruptcy but I doubt if anyone at Delta would care much if everyone at the time lost their jobs at PNCL but hay at least you would have your sacred hiring standards intact that I am sure every DAL pilot on property now has been through.
Don't blame Delta for Phil T and gang's sheer incompetence at running a business.Pinnacle/Endeavor Airlines did not need to be in bankruptcy except DAL wanted it to be. I agree with some of your statements BB but history has also demonstrated the playing field IS NOT level for regional pilots. When regional pilots try to seek or gain opportunities in bad situations you get chastised rather then equal and fair treatment. It was probably wrong and inappropriate if there was a secret back door agreement that DALPA was not informed or kept out of the loop but then how much effort would PNCL pilots get from DALPA if the company was liquidated? It was your airline that wanted PNCL in bankruptcy but I doubt if anyone at Delta would care much if everyone at the time lost their jobs at PNCL but hay at least you would have your sacred hiring standards intact that I am sure every DAL pilot on property now has been through.
What I do know is the Endeavor pilot group is a better group without the likes of Shyguy on the seniority list. I do not know who he or she is, but from reading his or her posts they would be a CRM nightmare to work with.
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Originally Posted by Will
What I do know is the Endeavor pilot group is a better group without the likes of Shyguy on the seniority list. I do not know who he or she is, but from reading his or her posts they would be a CRM nightmare to work with.
clean out your inbox....you are about to get 36 PM's from him to clarify and say what a nice guy he really is, he is just misunderstood
Nope. But given your past history IBPilot, maybe Will should clear his inbox out for your two paragraph description of me - the one with being as thin as your biceps. That message.
