Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?
03-13-2018, 06:47 PM
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
Originally Posted by Bar Harbor
So we pass LOA91.... get industry leading pay... and now we’re paying for that. Now the company is decreasing our schedule efficiency to offset delays... AND... our FDP is going to start at forward wheel movement under our own power. Zero FDP for block out, wait for push, push, engine start, wait for LGA ground to clear you to taxi. SMH
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
03-13-2018, 06:57 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 888
Originally Posted by Bar Harbor
If you’re asking about FDP at forward wheel movement, I don’t think it’s started yet but it’s been mentioned by mgmt in recent RGS classes and also at LEAD18
That seems to me to violate the spirit of the regulation.
If there hasn't already been an interpretation saying that's legal I'll be the first to request it. I'd be shocked if that would hold up.
03-13-2018, 07:10 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Blueskies21
Is that FAR 117 Legal??
That seems to me to violate the spirit of the regulation.
If there hasn't already been an interpretation saying that's legal I'll be the first to request it. I'd be shocked if that would hold up.
That seems to me to violate the spirit of the regulation.
If there hasn't already been an interpretation saying that's legal I'll be the first to request it. I'd be shocked if that would hold up.
Flight time means:
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing
03-13-2018, 07:11 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by Blueskies21
Is that FAR 117 Legal??
That seems to me to violate the spirit of the regulation.
If there hasn't already been an interpretation saying that's legal I'll be the first to request it. I'd be shocked if that would hold up.
That seems to me to violate the spirit of the regulation.
If there hasn't already been an interpretation saying that's legal I'll be the first to request it. I'd be shocked if that would hold up.
All that being said I personally don’t like it. Means that all that time at the gate will no longer count as flight time. Also will make it much harder for us to track to make sure we are legal given the current ACARS software.
03-13-2018, 07:15 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 888
Originally Posted by blackdenton
The FAR definition of flight time:
We are currently logging a lot of flight time that doesn't meet this definition since we aren't moving under our own power. In my experience though I don't think I've ever went over the max flight time per day, it's always flight duty period that is the problem so I'm not sure how much this will really help.
We are currently logging a lot of flight time that doesn't meet this definition since we aren't moving under our own power. In my experience though I don't think I've ever went over the max flight time per day, it's always flight duty period that is the problem so I'm not sure how much this will really help.
If it's flight time won't start until forward motion, there's a chance that they might be able to get an interpretation to support that but I'm fairly confident that the contract defines brake release as pay, so I'm not particularly concerned by the flight time not accruing. I'm with you, I think you'd run out of FDP before flight time anyway.
All that's IF they could get an interpretation to support no flight time for that. Would make keeping your logbook problematic.
03-13-2018, 07:18 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Position: Left Seat
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by Blueskies21
I understood them to be saying FDP won't start until forward motion.... that's just crazy and I see no way that'd hold up.
03-13-2018, 07:22 PM
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 6 Train - Panhandler
Posts: 2,001
Originally Posted by jules11
Sorry. As a woman in aviation, I've heard how dirty you guys can get. Was just tying to be one of the boys 
.
.
03-13-2018, 07:28 PM
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 888
Originally Posted by blackdenton
FDP starts 45 minutes prior to our first assignment now right? Not sure how they could move it back to after we have pushed. As for pay I believe we will still be paid the same. I thought it was mainly a DOT 3 hour thing.
I must have completely misunderstood you originally.
I thought guys were saying the FDP wouldn't start until forward motion. Evidently they meant flight time wouldn't start.
I don't think that will solve many problems.
I went and reviewed the ALPA guide, it definitely DOES say you could push back and not have the flight time count until you taxi but I agree that's problematic to track.
If you taxi to a pad, flight time counts. If you drop the brake and sit without moving under your own power, then flight time doesn't count. Seems extremely problematic for the airline to track. How often could that really be helping? What's the compliance cost (in fines or publicity) if you have even one crew taxi and therefore violate flight time limits?
03-13-2018, 07:30 PM
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by blackdenton
FDP starts 45 minutes prior to our first assignment now right? Not sure how they could move it back to after we have pushed. As for pay I believe we will still be paid the same. I thought it was mainly a DOT 3 hour thing.
So we can only do 8 or 9 hours of flight time depending on the report time. The way it is now they are counting block time as flight time for the regs. For example, if we block out but sit at the gate for 1 hour before push or more specifically before we move under our own power it is currently being counted toward those limits.
But the way the regs are written they can start the flight time clock at first forward movement. That will allow the company to have less people time out based on the flight time limits because of NY issues.
DOT, FDP, and pay remain unchanged.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
