So if we can't log more than 9, the company can't log more than 9. So then, what was the point of this change in the first place?

 

Ah.......

What good times when you have to bicker over logbook times so you can upgrade.......

 

So absolutely everything I said wasn't completely worthless, you at least took this away.

Something worthwhile came out of this discussion. My work here is done.

Now just ignore that if you agree it's a risk to log more than 9 hours in a day, the only really compelling argument there was for continuing to log block is consistency. If you can't log block all the time (because sometimes it would raise questions of legality), then the consistency argument is out the window.

But at least if you don't log more than 9 hrs you won't have to deal with that potential question of your logbook in an interview. You still will have falsified your logbook for those extra 5 minutes each flight that you are completely aware of (and have accurate accounting for) that don't meet the definition of FAR 1.1 but you'll never get caught, so at least there's that. Clearly some people take the "I certify these entries are true" at the bottom of each page a little liberally. True-ish. I mean, I know they don't meet FAR 1.1 definition, and I know by how much each leg, because I had to adjust it, but "true".

Now how do we tell the guys that only read the company memos; log block time unless it's over 9 hours, then don't. Because it's one of those poor unsuspecting guys that could potentially get screwed over in an interview. They will be sitting there with 11 hours on a day in their logbook and won't even know they did anything wrong because... "the company said block time" which another company won't care about.

I guess I shouldn't worry about those guys, because if they lose their opportunity for the next job, more opportunity for me. As long as I get mine, right?

 

The Company is going to log flight time for the purposes of preventing you from timing out on FAR 117 flight time.

For other purposes they're going to use block time.

They're also advising us to log block time.

Of course, you're just as obligated as the company to be aware of your flight time for legality and that will be difficult if you're only tracking block.

I've been corrected by 2 year FO's that this is something I shouldn't worry about.

You can choose for yourself what to do with that information.

 

It is interesting that 121.436 does not specifically require flight hours to upgrade, it only says hours. Once the door closes you are still operating as a crew member with intention to fly, even if you are not 117 flying yet. Same principle with the old Hobbs meters running before movement. Block hours should be sufficient for logging purposes.

There is no maximum for block in FAR 117 AFAIK, the limitation only applies to flight time. So, I don't see why you couldn't block more than 8/9 hours as long as your flight time remains within limits. But if you do record more than 8/9 hours of block in a day (good luck with that), just be ready to explain the difference between block and flight time, and how you and your company keep track of each. On the RARE occasion that you ever get that much block, just make a small note of the day's total flight time in the logbook..

 

You need to read more than 1.1


What is flight time?
14CFR 1.1
(1) Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing;

But what is pilot time?
14CFR 61.1
Pilot time means that time in which a person—
(i) Serves as a required pilot flight crewmember; (ie door closure, meaning block......)

So, should we log pilot time or flight time in our logbooks?
14CFR 61.51
(c) Logging of pilot time. The pilot time described in this section may be used to:
(1) Apply for a certificate or rating issued under this part or a privilege authorized under this part; or
(2) Satisfy the recent flight experience requirements of this part.

 

That's the best argument I've seen to support block vs flight.... you're absolutely correct 121.436 a.3 itself says "hours" which fully supports your argument. However 121.436 c says "(c) For the purpose of satisfying the flight hour requirement in paragraph (a)(3) of this section, a pilot may credit 500 hours of military flight time obtained as pilot in command of a multiengine turbine-powered, fixed-wing airplane in an operation requiring more than one pilot." There's no other hour requirement in (a)(3) except the 1000 hrs, so I think we're forced to conclude that must be a flight hour requirement.

You're also correct as far as I know about there not being a block hour limit in 121 or 117 but I'd still be careful about logging more than 9 hours a day in my logbook because I'm not real interested in having a block hour vs flight hour discussion in an interview. As we all know, block hour logging has been the standard but we didn't have a good way to track flight hours, now we do.

 

My post above explains how civilians can log time to meet experience requirements. I have no idea how the military logs their time, they are separate from the FAA. You can't bridge the two so easily.

 

(b)Logbook entries. For the purposes of meeting the requirements of paragraph (a) of this section, each person must enter the following information for each flight or lesson logged:

(1) General -

(i) Date.

(ii) Total flight time or lesson time.

 

So the same reference tells us two different things. Clear as mud.