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Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?

Old 04-23-2019, 11:00 AM
  #21731  
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
It probably will but not because of this. Its a zero sum game and this has been an on and off again thing for decades. In the grand scheme of things nothing will change and no airline will harm any other to any significant extent. Hiring LCC pilots OTOH very well may...
Overall I agree with you! I donít think the strategy I mentioned above will cause any real true harm to AAs business itís just another piece to keep the market more competitive. The big three have been at this private chess game for a long time! Iím sure similar choices are made at AA and United where taking three applicants with similar backgrounds and choosing hiring the competitions regional pilots over weakening your own. It just makes business sense.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:42 AM
  #21732  
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The fact that no airline is starting a fare war in the middle of the largest margins ever, is proof the airlines are no longer at each otherís throats.
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Old 04-23-2019, 12:42 PM
  #21733  
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Originally Posted by Rotor2prop View Post
Wow! Your reply is a classic example of why no one on APC can discuss anything or share opinions civilly! Congratulations! There is no ďmaster planĒ itís just one part of a simple business strategy. I donít know where you got the idea ďThis could be the final death blow to AAĒ thatís just silly! A strategy like this is just applying a squeeze to AA the same way they do by competing for market share in high yield markets.
These low-blowing silly tactics are not only absurd but youíre accusing a major corporation of railroading another for no real reason. Iíd wonder if your slander is borderline litigation worthy. Have you seen Deltas quarterlies? Are they having any kind of problems at all? If so then Iíd half believe this. Reads more like sinister bull butter to me.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:02 PM
  #21734  
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Originally Posted by TalkTurkey View Post
These low-blowing silly tactics are not only absurd but youíre accusing a major corporation of railroading another for no real reason. Iíd wonder if your slander is borderline litigation worthy. Have you seen Deltas quarterlies? Are they having any kind of problems at all? If so then Iíd half believe this. Reads more like sinister bull butter to me.
Iím sorry but these ďtacticsĒ are what every single large corporation does and have always done. Is it in the business plan? Why no! The things I mentioned and many other strategies are shared word of mouth in every corporate boardroom in the world. Of course they will never be on paper. I really donít understand why you think something like this would even remotely be considered illegal or unethical in corporate America of today. I guess growing up with a father that sat in a boardroom more than our dining room made me feel like itís common place for competition in a free market with these large companies. Sorry to anyone who took my statements as inflammatory or as trolling because that was not the intent.
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Old 04-23-2019, 06:20 PM
  #21735  
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Originally Posted by GuardPolice View Post
It exists in the form of the DGI or guaranteed application review. Everyone currently at a DCI carrier has a 3+ year career head start on the Propel pilots. Again, nothing is 100% guaranteed for the Propel pilots just like those current programs for the DCI pilots.



GP
Those programs have a terrible success rate. I hope the projections are better than 50-60% for propel. It may just be I donít know much about the program, but I guess I am just wondering why DAL is going to colleges to recruit CFIs.

If itís a brand commitment thing, they have 5,000+ pilots already flying DAL pax. There seems to be no shortage of apps on file. I also canít help but wonder how a newly minted commercial pilot passes the same interview as a DGI candidate. Unless they are not the same interview.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:34 PM
  #21736  
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Originally Posted by Rotor2prop View Post
I really donít understand why you think something like this would even remotely be considered illegal or unethical in corporate America of today. I guess growing up with a father that sat in a boardroom more than our dining room made me feel like itís common place for competition in a free market with these large companies.
Probably because it is actually illegal?

It's legal to hire your competitors employees, but not to target them for hiring to take their staffing.


http://www.kkrlaw.com/changes/employeeraiding.htm
Systematic inducement of multiple employees of a single company to leave their present employment is unlawful when the purpose is to destroy a competitor or an integral segment of its business, rather than obtain the services of skilled employees. The very fact that a company targets its recruitment efforts at a single competitor suggests an improper motive, since one company rarely has a monopoly on skilled workers. Evidence that the loss of key personnel will harm the company, and that its rival desired to drive them out of business is important proof in these cases.
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Old 04-24-2019, 05:07 AM
  #21737  
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Originally Posted by Meow1215 View Post
Those programs have a terrible success rate. I hope the projections are better than 50-60% for propel. It may just be I donít know much about the program, but I guess I am just wondering why DAL is going to colleges to recruit CFIs.



If itís a brand commitment thing, they have 5,000+ pilots already flying DAL pax. There seems to be no shortage of apps on file. I also canít help but wonder how a newly minted commercial pilot passes the same interview as a DGI candidate. Unless they are not the same interview.

The HR interview is tailored to the students' experience up until that point. They take the same COG and psych profile tests before being offered a spot in Propel. They wonít take the job knowledge test and MMPI until just before they are offered a mainline indoc class. So, you can see where an OTS candidate takes all of that in 2 days, these Propel students have it spread out over several years. Maybe some will see that as easier but the other side of that coin is the Propel pilot wonít be 100% accepted to mainline until theyíve been in the program for quite sometime. They canít fail the MMPI more than twice which is also just like OTS candidates.

There are many stakeholders in all of this. Delta, the universities, DPJ, and the military. This program allows Delta to get into colleges and eventually high schools. A side benefit is more brand awareness as aside from the 8000 pilots we need in the next 10 years, they also plan to hire 25000 or so company wide for planned growth and attrition. So, even if we donít pick up prospective pilots, maybe we can get people interested in working for Delta in other capacities.

As far as the universities are concerned, they were very eager for Propel. They have a CFI retention problem. Once a CFI gets their R-ATP mins, they bail for their indoc class, most of the times in the idle of the semester which typically leave their students and perhaps the schools hanging. Propel pilots are required to instruct at their university until the end of the semester in which they get their R-ATP mins. This allows the schools to plan the Propel pilot's exit and hire other CFIs as they leave.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:02 AM
  #21738  
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Our unions stance on Propel, is that they don't want them coming here at all. I think that is a mistake, but they feel the CRM issue poses too much of a threat.

At least the EtD pilots had a guaranteed job at Delta after their DCI term. I don't think the Propel program is worth it, you are setting yourself up to burn bridges in this industry, and Delta can pull that QJO at any time. If you are a highly motivated candidate, you don't need any type of hiring program to succeed.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:25 AM
  #21739  
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Originally Posted by Mesabah View Post
Our unions stance on Propel, is that they don't want them coming here at all. I think that is a mistake, but they feel the CRM issue poses too much of a threat.

At least the EtD pilots had a guaranteed job at Delta after their DCI term. I don't think the Propel program is worth it, you are setting yourself up to burn bridges in this industry, and Delta can pull that QJO at any time. If you are a highly motivated candidate, you don't need any type of hiring program to succeed.

One of the roles of the mentors the Propel pilots get assigned is to talk about these potential CRM issues. That said, there’s no obvious scarlet letter put on these pilots in their employment files. The only way another non-Propel pilot will know they are working with a Propel pilot is if the latter mentions it.

There’s no burning bridges here. If the non-Propel pilots have issues, that speaks more about them than anyone. I think the odds of these potential conflicts are minimal at best and Delta has ways of handling them.

As far 9E ALPA not wanting them to go there...all I can say is they were brought to the table and were given opportunities to provide feedback. What that looked like I have no idea. What I can say with confidence is Delta has ways dealing with these conflicts but it will largely rely on the professionalism of everyone involved.

Last edited by GuardPolice; 04-24-2019 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 04-24-2019, 07:37 AM
  #21740  
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I don't think there will be systemic issues with crusty Captains and Propel candidates. There may be a few outliers, but these are most likely Captains who are diks to everyone, not just Propels.

The company should do a better job of explaining what the Propel program is to the pilots of 9E. That will go a long way to avoiding any conflicts and keep the crewroom/facebook beeching to a minimum.

These pilots aren't getting any more opportunity than the rest of us have had. This isn't a flow for these pilots. It's just a HR marketing tool.

Now, if it turns out this thing actually is a flow-thru? Well, then I will change my tune and dirty sanchez their headsets when they're out of the cockpit.
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