Search
Notices
Envoy Airlines Regional Airline

Class Drop List

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 08-21-2019, 09:26 AM
  #1031  
In a land of unicorns
 
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Default

Originally Posted by Cyio View Post
All that selecting transition does is allow crew scheduling to make you legal between your last trip of one month and the first trip of the new month. What often happens is they drop a turn or an overnight right in the middle to give you the needed rest and weekly hour requirements. These dropped trips are paid in this case.

If you dont select it, the conflict is simply dropped away on either side and you dont get paid. If you live in base, this is what I would do 100% of the time and like the poster above mentioned, just pick up an OT turn somewhere to make up the lost pay.

However, if you commute the transition option is nice because you get paid, get a hotel and save yourself an extra commute. The choice is yours at the end of the day. I would add though, being gone from home that many days is rough in my opinion. It takes more time to adjust once back home and if you have a family, you would be surprised at how long those extra days feel.
No - DCs are not paid. You only get paid for the remaining flying that they add when you use the transition option. Common misconception that you get paid for the dropped trips. You do not.

Selecting transition only means that you let crew scheduling salvage the rest of the trip back to your schedule. So let's say you have a 4-day starting on the 29th, and another 4 day starting on the 1st. The conflict dates are 1st 2nd and 3rd. With transition off, the 4 day starting on the 1st drops off as DC, and you get the 4th off. With transition on, they drop the 1st, 2nd and 3rd day bits, and add whatever is left of that trip that dropped, often just a turn. You only get paid for this added part, NOT the part that was dropped.

So if you lose 10 hours in transition, you lose 10 hours of your line guarantee value, plus whatever carryover was left.
dera is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 09:50 AM
  #1032  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,656
Default

Originally Posted by dera View Post
No - DCs are not paid. You only get paid for the remaining flying that they add when you use the transition option. Common misconception that you get paid for the dropped trips. You do not.

Selecting transition only means that you let crew scheduling salvage the rest of the trip back to your schedule. So let's say you have a 4-day starting on the 29th, and another 4 day starting on the 1st. The conflict dates are 1st 2nd and 3rd. With transition off, the 4 day starting on the 1st drops off as DC, and you get the 4th off. With transition on, they drop the 1st, 2nd and 3rd day bits, and add whatever is left of that trip that dropped, often just a turn. You only get paid for this added part, NOT the part that was dropped.

So if you lose 10 hours in transition, you lose 10 hours of your line guarantee value, plus whatever carryover was left.
I will just post here so there is no confusion over semantics.

E. MONTH TO MONTH SCHEDULE ADJUSTMENTS
1. Should a pilot be awarded a schedule which contains a trip sequence that continues into the next bid period, the pilot will complete the trip sequence and his schedule for the next bid period will be adjusted if necessary. Such pilot will not be paid for flight removals in the next month.

2. At the pilot’s option, indicated on his monthly bid, Crew Scheduling may determine whether to adjust (for the purpose of contractual and/or FAR legalities) a pilot’s month-to-month schedule in the last three (3) days of the current month or first four (4) days of the next month. Any pilot choosing this option will be paid for any flights from which removed for satisfying such legality in either the current or next month.

Example: #1: A pilot removed for a 7-day, 30/7 conflict etc. will be pay protected for any flights removed for the purpose of correcting an FAR or contractual illegality.

Example: #2: A pilot removed due to a conflict between flights in a current month sequence and flights in a new month sequence, scheduled to operate on the same day(s), will not be pay protected for such removals.

Per MEC-1106 Settlement Agreement, pilot will always finish prior month's flying before commencing subsequent reserve month's flying whether he checks transition box or not.

Pilots who have DC put into new trip whenever possible even if trip doesn't fly through domicile as long as both pilots can DHD on ENY/AA and no additional hotel rooms needed.

If a pilot checks the transition box on his bid ballot and has a 7 day in transition will be paid for all legs removed on that day. When correcting 7 day, company is not required to build DHDs or pay credit DHD legs per paragraph #2 at the end of the flying day prior to the 7 day conflict. However, any DHDs added after 7 day conflict will be paid.

If pilot has FAR or transition illegality within the direct conflict sequence and the flights do not overlap or operate at the same time such that he could have otherwise flown both schedules absent the illegality, he will be pay-protected.

Q&A 10-4: "TL" code on HI-1 indicates pay-protection for removed flying.
Cyio is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 09:59 AM
  #1033  
In a land of unicorns
 
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Default

Originally Posted by Cyio View Post
I will just post here so there is no confusion over semantics.

..snip..
So, you are pay protected for TL, but not DC. For lineholders, a lot of conflicts are DCs and thus not pay protected. Pretty easy to lose 10 hours of pay that way. Especially if your first trip of the month has some silly 1.5 hour GRK overnight which they tag on to an already weak end of the previous trip. Most of the time for reserves you want the transition, because you get paid for the TL day off you get. But for lineholders, the transition is a trap and it only works if you have back to back trips. For overlapping trips, transition often works against you.

I had a 19 hour 4-day turn into a 3 hour overnight and 4 hours of carryon. So I lost 12 hours of pay and working 6 days in a row. Never making that mistake(selecting transition) again.
dera is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 10:34 AM
  #1034  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,656
Default

Originally Posted by dera View Post
So, you are pay protected for TL, but not DC. For lineholders, a lot of conflicts are DCs and thus not pay protected. Pretty easy to lose 10 hours of pay that way. Especially if your first trip of the month has some silly 1.5 hour GRK overnight which they tag on to an already weak end of the previous trip. Most of the time for reserves you want the transition, because you get paid for the TL day off you get. But for lineholders, the transition is a trap and it only works if you have back to back trips. For overlapping trips, transition often works against you.

I had a 19 hour 4-day turn into a 3 hour overnight and 4 hours of carryon. So I lost 12 hours of pay and working 6 days in a row. Never making that mistake(selecting transition) again.
Yes, we seem to be talking the same the same language, perhaps I should have been more clear in my initial reply. I agree 100%, this is a dangerous game to play so you need to make sure you understand it.

Eagle Quickbid makes things fantastic if you want to roll the dice and have the seniority to know you will get what you want. To be clear, to benefit from transition you NEED to be able to create a 30/7 conflict or some other duty day issue, otherwise it will not be paid.

Some pilots, especially more senior ones activity search these trips out to make extra money for the same amount of work. Good luck to all who try and be sure of your bidding.
Cyio is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 10:35 AM
  #1035  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 177
Default

Originally Posted by dera View Post

I had a 19 hour 4-day turn into a 3 hour overnight and 4 hours of carryon. So I lost 12 hours of pay and working 6 days in a row. Never making that mistake(selecting transition) again.
I had been selecting NO to transition until I spoke to union reps who said it was best to select YES 99% of the time so yeah I think i was doing right before by selecting NO and picking up a few hours of OT to compensate
EnyFlyr is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 10:51 AM
  #1036  
In a land of unicorns
 
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Default

Originally Posted by EnyFlyr View Post
I had been selecting NO to transition until I spoke to union reps who said it was best to select YES 99% of the time so yeah I think i was doing right before by selecting NO and picking up a few hours of OT to compensate
Because of transition, I now have the privilege to spend 21 hours in the tropical island paradise of Killeen, TX. And I get paid 1hr 51 minutes for it.
Never again if I have any carryover flying.
dera is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 11:29 AM
  #1037  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: CA
Posts: 147
Default

Originally Posted by buddies8 View Post
You will not be allowed to trade. Conflict is beginning of month, then ttot not available until at least first day of the new month, plus trot will not trade into a conflict and manual ttot will not be approved.
But you knew that because you were not lazy to read up on it.
Work smart not hard
AeroEnvoy is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 12:50 PM
  #1038  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Posts: 394
Default

Also keep in mind that you have 24 hours to change your selection on transition, dts, slide, and composite. You can see what your prelim bid is and have 24 hours to determine the best course and change you selection.
Shiner is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 01:00 PM
  #1039  
In a land of unicorns
 
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Default

Originally Posted by Shiner View Post
Also keep in mind that you have 24 hours to change your selection on transition, dts, slide, and composite. You can see what your prelim bid is and have 24 hours to determine the best course and change you selection.
Got a contract reference for this? Not saying you're wrong, just didn't see it after a quick glance.
dera is offline  
Old 08-21-2019, 02:30 PM
  #1040  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 177
Default

So i guess they’re still hurting for DECs huh
EnyFlyr is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
FMGEC
Delta
13
11-20-2017 08:35 AM
Route66
American
6
04-08-2015 06:38 AM
Bucking Bar
Major
1
02-04-2009 11:12 AM
seafeye
Regional
140
01-29-2009 06:24 AM
maddogmax
Mergers and Acquisitions
96
10-23-2008 06:53 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices