Envoy Air don’t come here
10-30-2018 | 11:42 AM
#141
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Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 193
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You are crazy if you think that $10 an hour is peanuts? That is a huge deal for people and surely makes a difference in our household.
Also, most dont upgrade with 70-73 an hour, its less.
This flow you are so gun ho about is great, assuming it works. The situation is a win/win for management. They get to pay us significantly less now because we value this flow so much, but if **** hits the fan and the economy goes defunct, guess what, they also win because are still the lowest paid. We take all the risk in this situation. Pay is a serious issue right now and one that needs to be addressed somehow. Sadly, since our company doesn't want to do the right thing for its pilot group, our only hope is that recruitment slows.
Welcome to the team, I know it can be hostile on here, but you will find that the people you work with are almost always very cool, and very helpful. However, given you are not even out of training yet, I find it a little early to be championing the cause of management and flow.
Also, most dont upgrade with 70-73 an hour, its less.
This flow you are so gun ho about is great, assuming it works. The situation is a win/win for management. They get to pay us significantly less now because we value this flow so much, but if **** hits the fan and the economy goes defunct, guess what, they also win because are still the lowest paid. We take all the risk in this situation. Pay is a serious issue right now and one that needs to be addressed somehow. Sadly, since our company doesn't want to do the right thing for its pilot group, our only hope is that recruitment slows.
Welcome to the team, I know it can be hostile on here, but you will find that the people you work with are almost always very cool, and very helpful. However, given you are not even out of training yet, I find it a little early to be championing the cause of management and flow.
This!
Filler
10-30-2018 | 12:24 PM
#142
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 232
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From: middle seat in the back
I know it is the best choice for me, there is no comparison. Flow vs. no flow = dealbreaker for me, and a base in DFW sweetens the deal. I've tried to say this before - I am not your typical new hire, so my comments are only relevant to my personal situation.
I don't think you understand the valuation of flow. I could work for free for 8 years, and it would be worth it for me. Now, if flow goes away, I'm SOL, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. That's the personal risk acceptance I mentioned.
I don't want to start an argument about how "people like me" are "the problem" etc, but just remember, we all have our own reasons. And clearly the company way seems to be working, given that Envoy is the hardest regional seat to get right now.
There was nothing disparaging about my comments. I will start complaining about pay/benefits/work rules after I'm done with training. Pre-indoc I don't have that right. I'm just trying to show that there is another side to this argument.
Trust me - I'm not a company/management man. I just don't think it would be cool for me to complain about things I've yet to receive.
I don't think you understand the valuation of flow. I could work for free for 8 years, and it would be worth it for me. Now, if flow goes away, I'm SOL, but that's a risk I'm willing to take. That's the personal risk acceptance I mentioned.
I don't want to start an argument about how "people like me" are "the problem" etc, but just remember, we all have our own reasons. And clearly the company way seems to be working, given that Envoy is the hardest regional seat to get right now.
There was nothing disparaging about my comments. I will start complaining about pay/benefits/work rules after I'm done with training. Pre-indoc I don't have that right. I'm just trying to show that there is another side to this argument.
Trust me - I'm not a company/management man. I just don't think it would be cool for me to complain about things I've yet to receive.
10-30-2018 | 12:38 PM
#143
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
10-30-2018 | 01:06 PM
#144
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 470
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As a new hire, I’m still in the cupcake phase with the company so I can’t say either of how crappy the the work rules are and what’s great/what’s not but I will say this.
Everyone I’ve talked to so far who work for other airlines about my choice with this company have all told me this is a good company, it seems there’s a lot of respect going around, and if the industry respects us then the company needs to return the favor, it’s that simple.
Guys recently out of college like myself don’t care about pay as much well, simply because we bear not that much responsibility. So to say you could work for free, you’d say that now until you start to realize you can’t afford that new car you bought/ planning to buy with that bonus money. We like the movement and attrition, but at the end of the day, the extra 10$/hr matters.
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Everyone I’ve talked to so far who work for other airlines about my choice with this company have all told me this is a good company, it seems there’s a lot of respect going around, and if the industry respects us then the company needs to return the favor, it’s that simple.
Guys recently out of college like myself don’t care about pay as much well, simply because we bear not that much responsibility. So to say you could work for free, you’d say that now until you start to realize you can’t afford that new car you bought/ planning to buy with that bonus money. We like the movement and attrition, but at the end of the day, the extra 10$/hr matters.
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10-30-2018 | 01:59 PM
#145
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Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 793
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From: FO
Envoy. Republic. Skywest. Expressjet. Endeavor
1st ye CA. 66.34. 84.26. 73.68. 69.02. 85.24
MAX CA. 95.69. 136.26. 116.0. 106.11. 118.88
1st ye FO. 38.66. 45.68. 45.0 40.40. 50.66
MAX FO. 40.58. 58.87. 60.50. 48.35. 62.27
——————————————————————————————————
Not really sure what projected flow times are for current new hires however it is long enough for recruitment to no longer be advertising it online as a Perk. (I think) 7-8yrs.
I respect if you still want to show up to class and be at envoy due to base, if you want to bank on flow (not a great guarantee right now), you like envoy or whatever...
It is just that in my opinion, there are better regionals to start your career at the moment.
We are falling behind.
1st ye CA. 66.34. 84.26. 73.68. 69.02. 85.24
MAX CA. 95.69. 136.26. 116.0. 106.11. 118.88
1st ye FO. 38.66. 45.68. 45.0 40.40. 50.66
MAX FO. 40.58. 58.87. 60.50. 48.35. 62.27
——————————————————————————————————
Not really sure what projected flow times are for current new hires however it is long enough for recruitment to no longer be advertising it online as a Perk. (I think) 7-8yrs.
I respect if you still want to show up to class and be at envoy due to base, if you want to bank on flow (not a great guarantee right now), you like envoy or whatever...
It is just that in my opinion, there are better regionals to start your career at the moment.
We are falling behind.
Bump!!!! Don’t get distracted by self admitted tools. We are still a cheap to operate regional/WO for AAG even with parity pay with other regional carriers like Endeavor.
Skywest Inc is a publicly traded company. 2 of its regional carriers just passed a pay raise with much better work rules than we have and also better performance bonuses
1. XJet
2. Skywest rates take affect Nov 1st.
Facts
Republic- increases within the past 12-18 months
Air Wisconsin- Increases within the past 12-18 months
Endeavor- Increases within the past 12-18 months
Compass- Increases within the past 12-18 months
CommutAir- Increases within the past 12-18 months.
Mesa Airline (Publicly traded company) - Increases within the past 12-18 months.
Envoy- Last pay increase to match the industry standard without silly tricks (FOs start at 3rd year FO rates, CR"AA”P woo haaa). Many many years (bankruptcy days).
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10-30-2018 | 02:03 PM
#146
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
Guys recently out of college like myself don’t care about pay as much well, simply because we bear not that much responsibility. So to say you could work for free, you’d say that now until you start to realize you can’t afford that new car you bought/ planning to buy with that bonus money. We like the movement and attrition, but at the end of the day, the extra 10$/hr matters.
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Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I play the long game - I'm happy to drive an older car for now knowing that the new shiny ones wait if/when I flow.
Again, my case is different, because I would not be competitive for the legacies off the street. I'm too old for that.
For someone in their 20's with all the boxes ticked, the $10/hr matters much more.
For me, the flow is worth way more than $10/hr.
10-30-2018 | 02:41 PM
#147
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Joined: Jul 2017
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I’ve been a proponent for pay increase all along rather than flow increases.
with the unions latest email saying the company won’t increase pay as they attach a dollar value to flow, then should the company not then increase flow commensurate with the increase in pay across the industry?
Just another way of looking at things if the company won’t budge on pay rates.
with the unions latest email saying the company won’t increase pay as they attach a dollar value to flow, then should the company not then increase flow commensurate with the increase in pay across the industry?
Just another way of looking at things if the company won’t budge on pay rates.
10-30-2018 | 02:56 PM
#148
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
From: CA
I’ve been a proponent for pay increase all along rather than flow increases.
with the unions latest email saying the company won’t increase pay as they attach a dollar value to flow, then should the company not then increase flow commensurate with the increase in pay across the industry?
Just another way of looking at things if the company won’t budge on pay rates.
with the unions latest email saying the company won’t increase pay as they attach a dollar value to flow, then should the company not then increase flow commensurate with the increase in pay across the industry?
Just another way of looking at things if the company won’t budge on pay rates.
10-31-2018 | 03:06 AM
#150
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,174
Likes: 157
I believe it is 2024 to have a full contract revision. Obviously, if the company wants something from us, the contract is opened and we can negotiate changes to it.
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