Keep hoping for six and plan for eight. Which means finish a degree and keep applying elsewhere.

 

It’s almost like listening to inmates.... how many years till you get out... LOL. Nothing has changed it seems. Good luck guys.
Keep applying elsewhere, 2019 is the first year where domestic legacy mandatory retirements exceed 3,000 per year.

 

This can't be said enough. Encounter too many people here who can't imagine life outside AAG.

 

The flow is working as intended - very few give up a "sure shot" at a legacy.

 

Exactly. Envoy ensures it has cheap labor that can be abused and still won’t leave.

 

I seriously doubt applying to UA/DL/FX/UPS/SWA off the street gives up their "sure shot" (whatever that means) at AA.

Compass had a "sure shot" at one point too. Things change.

 

Floodgates at those haven't opened yet. I'd only be happy if more senior guys applied, but the reality is - most don't. And as the new contracts happen at JB, Spirit, Frontier the candidates become more competitive. Who's gonna apply to the LCCs? Two year guy? Three? Five? For a current 5 yos pilot the flow is right around the corner - why leave now?
Guys are leaving, some to LCCs, some to cargo, some, tired of commuting to reserve on certain dying fleet, to other regionals and corporate jobs. But most of that tends to happen in the first 1-2-3 years.
Sooner or later the other big guys will up their hiring and, hopefully, our attrition will go up. But for now it is what it is.

 

Non Envoy guy here, I’m happy at Rjet. However thinking long term, the goal has always been AA.

Is there anything that protects you guys already on property in the event they decide to stop the flow?

I’m a couple of months away from upgrade, living in base, weighing my options.

 

Unfortunately no. By the time you would potentially flow, Envoy Air Inc. will have a new pilot contract that may not even include flow at all. The sad truth is that even the “protected” pilot group hasn’t even been fully protected. Grievances over a reduced rate of flow have all ready been settled on their behalf due to the companies “interpretation” of the flow LOA. Pilots in the group after them, like me, the “unprotecte,” are subject to those same company interpretations. Thus one can guess that the contractual minimum, as the company sees it, will be the status quo moving forward. In addition, unprotected pilots are subject to having their flow withheld by the company for disciplinary reasons. Lastly, flow is not guaranteed for anyone if American is not hiring. Bottom line, nothing is guaranteed in this industry, especially flow. But for me, it will be worth the risk for myself and lot of folks who do end up making it to a major sooner than they might have.

 

This is the big one, as management here is very mean to pilots. The will tell it to your face in indoc that "you don't matter, because so many people want to work here"