Guess itll be Monday when we get some real info.

 

I hope the end result is better than the draft that's already out.

 

This is so depressing- thought I was getting a 30% pay raise. If it’s true that they’re reneging on retention bonus, I got nothing for now. I should have known better.

 

How is this a surprise? It's 99.9% (less $0.01) the same pay rates PSA and PDT got? They lost their retention bonus as well.

They are not "reneging" on the retention bonus, it was always 100% company discretion.
This is why putting that money to pay rates is so much better - they can't be taken away unilaterally.

 

FOs (1st year) actually make out better with this because they delayed giving the bonus so long. Now you get it day 1 and if we are counting our cents then it will increase your annual bonus by 20%.

 

I truly don't understand how anyone thinks that a retention bonus is somehow better than a hard pay rates, or how anyone thought that we would get a higher pay scale than PSA/Piedmont. PSAs is a blended (higher) rate because all the pilots there fly large regional jets and small, most of their fleet being the large. At Envoy, you either fly a large or a small, and you can't go back and forth without a training event. 2/3 of our fleet is the 140/145, and 1/3 of our captains are on the C scale of pay. If we paid based on airplane type, you'd just have the senior guys at the top bidding for the 175, still making only 1/3 of captains being on the higher pay scale. How does none of this make sense to anyone complaining about the pay rates? Your entire career in the airlines, no matter which airline you are at, your pay will be based on the size of the plane you fly. Go look at the captain scales at American for a 787 vs a 190.

I'm not arguing in favor of of pay banding, but the sense of entitlement and complaining here is just insane. Our contract wasn't even up for negotiation, and we have rates now that are above standard for regionals. We are only being beat out by PSA, Republic, and Endeavor, all 3 of which all their pilots fly large regional jets.

Also you won't even receive your first retention bonus until about 16-17 months on property. You'll get the new pay rates in your paycheck every 2 weeks. You don't have to worry or try to calculate the whole witholding vs tax rate issue you do with the bonuses. You also have a more stable and flat income, vs bursts of higher income, which allow for easier application for loans and payment of benefits, while also receiving more of a total 401k match.

It does seem unfortunate that most of the things in the AIP were dropped, but at least wait until the final language is released before starting to complain about it.

We are no longer bottom of the barrel pay next to Mesa and TSA. I think this is something that should be looked at positively, not ****** on entirely.

 

I would agree with most of this. Is it a perfect deal? No, but it does improve things. Speaking from experience, the higher pay rate blows bonuses away in terms like home loans and the like, not to mention that if you upgrade in the standard time here the higher pay rates continue where the bonus is over. Lastly it’s a lot harder to jimmy with hard pay so this is a stronger and safer position long term.

Here’s hoping they are sincere with fixing some of the qol issues and we see some changes there in the future.

 

Yeah, I’m very let down as well. I agree that pay rates are better than bonuses and I agree that CAs needed a raise more but really? Absolutely nothing for FOs? Crappy. Anxiously awaiting word on the bonus.

 

17-20k sign on bonus and now you get 50 per hour and you are complaining... LOL. I still laugh when people complain to me about a year on reserve.

 

Yep, unless you had to walk to the airport in the snow, uphill both ways, you can never complain.
But seriously, if you are an FO and you were being promised pay “raises” for months, and all you got were pay “enhancements” because of the money being shuffled around, then you have the right to feel let down by this.