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Airline Pilot Central Forums (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/)
-   Envoy Airlines (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/)
-   -   Envoy 2020 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/126470-envoy-2020-a.html)

pitchattitude 01-18-2020 04:54 AM
Originally Posted by Tyrion (Post 2959212)
Right, but with this bid, several LGA FO's will transfer to other bases leaving backfills to be filled by new hires. Every FO position has at least 1 reserve for every 2 lineholders. Over staffing is the Envoy way.
Not just over staffing. Inefficiency is the Envoy way. Considering how cheap the company is, the way it inefficiently staffs tells just how cheaply we are compensated.

moon 01-18-2020 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by MEGAFUPM (Post 2959170)
Envoy pilots getting hired off the street decreases flow, not increase. Since we will be flowing based on the lower of a percentage of pilots on the seniority list. If we got all the way down to 480 pilots at Envoy it would still be an 8 year flow, becauce it's the lesser of pilots on property or based on 25% of Americans hiring, not the greater of. After DOS guys leaving above you does nothing to help your flow date.

Pilots leaving on top of you will speed the flow if Management can keep up with the attrition with new hires. If they cant then pilots leaving either side of you will theoretically slow your flow date.

MEGAFUPM 01-18-2020 06:33 AM
Originally Posted by moon (Post 2959286)
Pilots leaving on top of you will speed the flow if Management can keep up with the attrition with new hires. If they cant then pilots leaving either side of you will theoretically slow your flow date.
Correct. If they can keep new hire rates higher than attrtition your flow will stay the same/be quicker. However if they can't keep up with attrtition your flow will slow down. We'll just have to see what happens this year.

Cyio 01-18-2020 06:43 AM
Originally Posted by MEGAFUPM (Post 2959322)
Correct. If they can keep new hire rates higher than attrtition your flow will stay the same/be quicker. However if they can't keep up with attrtition your flow will slow down. We'll just have to see what happens this year.
Do you by chance know the seniority numbers that are flowing? Would be a good gauge to determine time frames.

pitchattitude 01-18-2020 06:46 AM
Originally Posted by MEGAFUPM (Post 2959170)
Envoy pilots getting hired off the street decreases flow, not increase. Since we will be flowing based on the lower of a percentage of pilots on the seniority list. If we got all the way down to 480 pilots at Envoy it would still be an 8 year flow, becauce it's the lesser of pilots on property or based on 25% of Americans hiring, not the greater of. After DOS guys leaving above you does nothing to help your flow date.
Everyone’s argument for decreased flow time don’t take into account the facts of this flow formula. As body count goes down, so does flow. And to the best of my knowledge, the arbitrated adjustment of a few per month of the PPs and the increase to the 10/11 group, adjustments to flow don’t affect current groups, any new agreements will affect new pilots. And there is still a lot of pilots that will have to flow at the lower rates.

MEGAFUPM 01-18-2020 06:50 AM
Originally Posted by pitchattitude (Post 2959331)
Everyone’s argument for decreased flow time don’t take into account the facts of this flow formula. As body count goes down, so does flow. And to the best of my knowledge, the arbitrated adjustment of a few per month of the PPs and the increase to the 10/11 group, adjustments to flow don’t affect current groups, any new agreements will affect new pilots. And there is still a lot of pilots that will have to flow at the lower rates.
There could definitely be a new flow agreement that affects DOS pilots, we'll just have to see what happens, especially with the opener this year. But generally it's either been better pay/QOL or more flow, not both.

MEGAFUPM 01-18-2020 06:58 AM
Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 2959329)
Do you by chance know the seniority numbers that are flowing? Would be a good gauge to determine time frames.
Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but you can check the flow through selection page on the envoy website under flight.

Cyio 01-18-2020 07:11 AM
Originally Posted by MEGAFUPM (Post 2959341)
Not sure if this is what you're looking for, but you can check the flow through selection page on the envoy website under flight.
I couldn't find what I was looking for. Interested in at what seniority level people are actually getting picked to go at. Is it 300, 400, 250 etc. I dont have the names/emplyee numbers in front of me to look and see.

MD-11Loader 01-18-2020 07:22 AM
Originally Posted by Cyio (Post 2959329)
Do you by chance know the seniority numbers that are flowing? Would be a good gauge to determine time frames.
Those who had the next class date as well as everyone who has been selected for flow were highlighted in the document that the union posted last week on the ALPA website including their seniority numbers.

Cyio 01-18-2020 08:00 AM
Originally Posted by MD-11Loader (Post 2959359)
Those who had the next class date as well as everyone who has been selected for flow were highlighted in the document that the union posted last week on the ALPA website including their seniority numbers.
Thanks for that, sadly looking like 200's range is where we need to be to flow out. That is a long road to look down for a new hire coming in at 2000.


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