Cyio

I agree, this MEC seems to get it and have learned from the mistakes of the past ones. In terms of management at Envoy, I dont see them doing anything different than they have always done, which means they will be keeping those two fools in the same position, if not promoting. Even if management sent an email, is there anything in it we could believe? I understand the company has to look out for all groups when making these decisions and we cant assume we are the only people who are having an issue, but when the union offers very good ideas and they are dismissed flat out or returned with some outrageous counteroffer, it is clear they are not dealing in good faith.
I would agree this is the best case scenario however I think it will still be longer. Not a single person has gotten the timeline of this thing correct as of now, so I am not holding my breath.

Cujo665

I agree, they've been doing an excellent job.

Personally, and I know this may be unpopular with some; but never ever give back concessions.

Let them furlough if they have to. It's not straight salary savings, because the bring-back costs are there too making furlough the more expensive option if it's going to be less than six months. The reason being the company will forever afterwards use it as the new baseline to say things like if it was okay then, then it's okay now.

Additionally, with the specter of BK looming is in discussions everywhere, and AAG has rehired the same legal firm that did their last bankruptcy. Last time they did BK they were trying to wring concessions out of us right up until the day before they declared. If we had taken concessions then, they'd have taken even more again during the bankruptcy.

In 2010 they were "divesting" us 'again' and said they needed concessions for us to be a viable stand alone company. It seemed like every four years at opener time we were "For Sale" or being divested, or being shut down.

The one thing that never changed was it was impossible to get actual gains. Their answer was always no, don't like it here, leave. The shortage changed all that. Real gains were made slowly over time until a new first year FO was making almost what junior Captains used to make. It was $21k a year when I started with no bonus, no flow, and no upgrade for about 10 years. By 2015 the industry abuse of pilots had become so bad that not enough people were entering the profession anymore. The industry's greed had choked off their supply of future pilots.

For the love of God, do not give them concessions when by every measure known they are already planning a run through bankruptcy. You'll end up giving twice. An arbitrator will be told by their lawyers that if the concessions were okay to save potential furloughs, then they are okay to save the company... and the snap back provisions will get cancelled and the deal will become permanent.

This management team is unethical and can not be trusted, and by the sounds of it, Tom's letter says that nothing has changed. Don't play their game.

some perspective
https://crankyflier.com/2014/01/23/a...agle-er-envoy/

buddies8

For those who still dont understand may I reference you to our A.I.P. that was negotiated, approved by both sides and then mgt reneged.

But seriously

Or our bankruptcy contract that was negotiated, SIGNED, and then reneged on (we were told we hadn’t given up enough and they wanted more).

buddies8

This mgt really sounds like a divorced wife.

Boxhound

You guys didn't learn a dam thing from our sacrifices. Now this is your "black Swan"event like 9-11 was ours.

Here comes the company stooges with the old AMR anti labor playbook.

Same old plays, new set of players---when will it ever end.

MEGAFUPM

How have we not learned? Isn't not giving them a single concession they are asking for learning from the past? Everyone I've seen and talked to here, minus those getting furloughed who don't know the full eagle history, are holding the line.

ClappedOut145

It really seems like the overwhelming majority supported not giving anything back to the company, especially with the AAG financial situation. A couple of the furloughed pilots have been pretty vocal about their new found hate for ALPA and their fellow pilots because concessions weren’t taken to keep them on property. I guess they don’t realize that they work for a carrier where they are flying under a bankruptcy era contract courtesy of two rounds of concessions. Why you would give anything back to the same management who gutted you last time is beyond me.

But seriously

It also sounds like mgmt was not negotiating in good faith.

buddies8

They got bonus and retention money plus a 40 percent pay raise, I got shi+. Other than that, it's the business, love it, hate it, grow with it, we do not support socialism here.
just an opinion.