Envoy 2021: A New Hope
07-17-2021 | 07:06 AM
#911
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 425
Likes: 1
From: Pipers!
I’d hope our union teams take note, at least unofficially for consideration. If there are discretionary funds, I’d give up a few pizza parties to compensate a consultant who is intimately familiar with our situation. Not saying the team is not capable, but no shame in taking all the help we can get, formally or behind the scenes.
even with tight money, you know the company is paying big money for professional advice on this stuff. It’s just business, I would too managing millions of dollars and tying to make every one count.
even with tight money, you know the company is paying big money for professional advice on this stuff. It’s just business, I would too managing millions of dollars and tying to make every one count.
07-17-2021 | 07:16 AM
#912
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 193
Likes: 0
Personally, having seen how they operate, I'd vote no on any "improvement" that has a sunset clause (end date) that makes extension totally at their option.
Include a hard improvement like if the parties do not agree to revise & extend this LOA, then all FO regular rates shall permanently increase by 8% and all CA rates shall increase by 5% from current CBA rates. Additionally, if the company and union do not reach agreement on a revised reserve pilot CBA amendment by XX date, then the following modifications to the reserve rules shall take effect: (list changes).
Furthermore, henceforth the company shall make a 5% direct contribution to all CA 401k, and shall make an 8% direct contribution to all FO 401k. This shall be in addition to current 401k matching programs.
Pilots shall have the right to drop scheduled line flying so long as they do not go below 60 hours scheduled block for the month. Red & redder shall not apply to these trip drops. Trip trades of equal number of days on duty, or of trip values within 4 hours pay credit of eachother shall not be denied due to red/redder.
Health Insurance shall adjust the employee/employer prorations such that pilots shall pay no more than 18% of their costs calculated on an annual basis.
Company shall provide - at no cost to each pilot - both long term and short term disability insurance equal to no less than 70% of their salary.
Make their own inaction your weapon.
Don't just give them the ability to get beef in the seats for free.
Good luck guys; it's a great time to be a pilot. Make the most of it. Wanna really **** them off; tell em your hiring me as a contracted CBA negotiator. They can't fire me a fourth time, nothing to lose, and I'll tell em exactly where they can shove their bull**** offers. Right before I march over to the media about the abusive management at American's subsidiary.
Include a hard improvement like if the parties do not agree to revise & extend this LOA, then all FO regular rates shall permanently increase by 8% and all CA rates shall increase by 5% from current CBA rates. Additionally, if the company and union do not reach agreement on a revised reserve pilot CBA amendment by XX date, then the following modifications to the reserve rules shall take effect: (list changes).
Furthermore, henceforth the company shall make a 5% direct contribution to all CA 401k, and shall make an 8% direct contribution to all FO 401k. This shall be in addition to current 401k matching programs.
Pilots shall have the right to drop scheduled line flying so long as they do not go below 60 hours scheduled block for the month. Red & redder shall not apply to these trip drops. Trip trades of equal number of days on duty, or of trip values within 4 hours pay credit of eachother shall not be denied due to red/redder.
Health Insurance shall adjust the employee/employer prorations such that pilots shall pay no more than 18% of their costs calculated on an annual basis.
Company shall provide - at no cost to each pilot - both long term and short term disability insurance equal to no less than 70% of their salary.
Make their own inaction your weapon.
Don't just give them the ability to get beef in the seats for free.
Good luck guys; it's a great time to be a pilot. Make the most of it. Wanna really **** them off; tell em your hiring me as a contracted CBA negotiator. They can't fire me a fourth time, nothing to lose, and I'll tell em exactly where they can shove their bull**** offers. Right before I march over to the media about the abusive management at American's subsidiary.
Unfortunately it seems like our MEC is committed to sign this LOA. Our MEC should play with the little bit of leverage that we finally have.
07-17-2021 | 07:38 AM
#913
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 638
Likes: 12
Personally, having seen how they operate, I'd vote no on any "improvement" that has a sunset clause (end date) that makes extension totally at their option.
Include a hard improvement like if the parties do not agree to revise & extend this LOA, then all FO regular rates shall permanently increase by 8% and all CA rates shall increase by 5% from current CBA rates. Additionally, if the company and union do not reach agreement on a revised reserve pilot CBA amendment by XX date, then the following modifications to the reserve rules shall take effect: (list changes).
Furthermore, henceforth the company shall make a 5% direct contribution to all CA 401k, and shall make an 8% direct contribution to all FO 401k. This shall be in addition to current 401k matching programs.
Pilots shall have the right to drop scheduled line flying so long as they do not go below 60 hours scheduled block for the month. Red & redder shall not apply to these trip drops. Trip trades of equal number of days on duty, or of trip values within 4 hours pay credit of eachother shall not be denied due to red/redder.
Health Insurance shall adjust the employee/employer prorations such that pilots shall pay no more than 18% of their costs calculated on an annual basis.
Company shall provide - at no cost to each pilot - both long term and short term disability insurance equal to no less than 70% of their salary.
Make their own inaction your weapon.
Don't just give them the ability to get beef in the seats for free.
Good luck guys; it's a great time to be a pilot. Make the most of it. Wanna really **** them off; tell em your hiring me as a contracted CBA negotiator. They can't fire me a fourth time, nothing to lose, and I'll tell em exactly where they can shove their bull**** offers. Right before I march over to the media about the abusive management at American's subsidiary.
Include a hard improvement like if the parties do not agree to revise & extend this LOA, then all FO regular rates shall permanently increase by 8% and all CA rates shall increase by 5% from current CBA rates. Additionally, if the company and union do not reach agreement on a revised reserve pilot CBA amendment by XX date, then the following modifications to the reserve rules shall take effect: (list changes).
Furthermore, henceforth the company shall make a 5% direct contribution to all CA 401k, and shall make an 8% direct contribution to all FO 401k. This shall be in addition to current 401k matching programs.
Pilots shall have the right to drop scheduled line flying so long as they do not go below 60 hours scheduled block for the month. Red & redder shall not apply to these trip drops. Trip trades of equal number of days on duty, or of trip values within 4 hours pay credit of eachother shall not be denied due to red/redder.
Health Insurance shall adjust the employee/employer prorations such that pilots shall pay no more than 18% of their costs calculated on an annual basis.
Company shall provide - at no cost to each pilot - both long term and short term disability insurance equal to no less than 70% of their salary.
Make their own inaction your weapon.
Don't just give them the ability to get beef in the seats for free.
Good luck guys; it's a great time to be a pilot. Make the most of it. Wanna really **** them off; tell em your hiring me as a contracted CBA negotiator. They can't fire me a fourth time, nothing to lose, and I'll tell em exactly where they can shove their bull**** offers. Right before I march over to the media about the abusive management at American's subsidiary.
A. The sunset clause doesn’t protect the company at all. It only protects the pilots. If the company determines SCC isn’t in their interest they can just not designate any days as SCC. It’s entirely in their discretion.
B. It’s great that you listed a bunch of stuff that all pilots would want, except, since RW would sacrifice his own first born before agreeing to any of that, you should have thrown in free ice cream and slushy machines in the break rooms.
C. That’s a lot of tough talk from a guy who was on the MEC when we signed the 10 year concessionary turd we are currently under. Which, btw, is WORSE than the 10 year concessionary turd that got turned down 6 months prior to that.
D. QOL is going suck for the next few months, because the company needed to address staffing 6 months ago. We might as well get paid extra for the suck.
07-17-2021 | 07:44 AM
#914
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,576
Likes: 47
From: Semi-Retired...
By that standard, you will NEVER be entitled to a pilot vote if they don’t want you to have one. They’ll do one little LOA at a time until you’ve essentially got a whole new CBA you never voted on. This is the most abused language in the by-laws. I wanted it changed back in 2014-2015 and couldn’t get past their fear that we’d lose something good if the company had more time to think on things making it less likely for us to get a quick grab before they realize the true cost.
In my years on the MEC, that happened once. The NY base closure LOA was way more than they intended to give once they started complying with it. That was Adam and me. The ALPA lawyers walked out saying we were asking too much and they weren’t going to do it. Adam and I went in ourselves and got every single thing we asked for. The company forever said we held them hostage for too much.
07-17-2021 | 11:07 AM
#915
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
300% is 300%. Obviously the company is doing it because it is projecting short term understaffing. I can’t imagine them conceding to long term pay increases at this point. There is a pretty good backlog of pilots looking for a job right now, so they don’t need to. It is training capacity that is creating the shortage, not a lack of applicants. In a year or two they may end up back at having to increase enticements for recruiting purposes. That is when they’ll do the permanent stuff.
07-17-2021 | 12:02 PM
#916
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2016
Posts: 2,607
Likes: 11
300% is 300%. Obviously the company is doing it because it is projecting short term understaffing. I can’t imagine them conceding to long term pay increases at this point. There is a pretty good backlog of pilots looking for a job right now, so they don’t need to. It is training capacity that is creating the shortage, not a lack of applicants. In a year or two they may end up back at having to increase enticements for recruiting purposes. That is when they’ll do the permanent stuff.
Scratch the whole 'super' critical with a sunset clause language. Instead, simply permanently increase the regular OT premium and critical coverage rates.
07-17-2021 | 12:21 PM
#917
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,123
Likes: 67
From: AOG
300% is nice, but getting rid of the captain pay banding would be nicer. Envoy needs the pilots to bail them out because RW and JD royally screwed up. If this LOA fails, then August pilot vacations will be canceled along with September which will only embolden the pilot rage even more.
07-17-2021 | 02:29 PM
#918
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
While I agree that simple pay increases don't really do anything to solve the company's current staffing issues, that doesn't mean there's not an opportunity to seek a permanent gain. For instance:
Scratch the whole 'super' critical with a sunset clause language. Instead, simply permanently increase the regular OT premium and critical coverage rates.
Scratch the whole 'super' critical with a sunset clause language. Instead, simply permanently increase the regular OT premium and critical coverage rates.
It would be nice to get the OT scale increased permanently, but our unrestricted OT rules are already quite a bit stronger than other regionals so I doubt it’ll happen…
Last edited by Dumpy; 07-17-2021 at 02:45 PM.
07-17-2021 | 02:56 PM
#919
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 0
It sounds like to company can select between either critical or super critical on any given day. If that’s the case than the sunset clause is to limit the amount of time they can use it as a band aid. It looks like it protects the pilots and not management (management never has to declare super critical).
It would be nice to get the OT scale increased permanently, but our unrestricted OT rules are already quite a bit stronger than other regionals so I doubt it’ll happen…
It would be nice to get the OT scale increased permanently, but our unrestricted OT rules are already quite a bit stronger than other regionals so I doubt it’ll happen…
This whole thing is lipstick on a pig. They need to fix the underlying problems.
Last edited by pitchattitude; 07-17-2021 at 03:07 PM.
07-17-2021 | 04:13 PM
#920
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 79
Likes: 0
The way I read it, they can simply declare a critical day to be worth 300% as an incentive (my guess is in order to get pilots to pick up 2.3 hour turns). The only other difference is that a JM or extended pilot can request the JM be converted to OT in order to get 300% instead of 200% on the “Super” critical days.
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