It doesn’t make sense though that they would offer jobs to pretty much everyone who qualifies and interviews and then don’t plan on actually hiring those people. They shouldn’t be offering interviews and handing out cjos if they can’t offer those people training and start dates

Envoy will still be hiring FOs. Just like anything, there are limited resources and they have to prioritize. Would you prefer they not extend CJOs? Get used to being a mushroom. Not trying to be flip, but just the way it is. If something else strikes you as working better for you than take it.

Are you at a Regional that does flying for AA? I wonder if the Wholly Owned have been told not to take pilots from airlines that do flying for AA.

This is the most reasonable answer. They are not going to rob Peter to pay Paul. So if you are at YX, OO, or Mesa and applied “after” the big pay announcement, then don’t plan on coming. However if you applied BEFORE the big pay announcement, then they know you really wanted to be at Envoy and will give ya a shot.

Hope this is the case. With the influx of current 121 apps I can understand the delay in response and sorting through things. I just hope that class dates aren’t 8 months out for a new hire that applied before the wage hike… I only applied to Envoy and SkyWest (before the announcement) and the $ versus class date might be a dilemma now.

I applied interviewed and passed captains board and accepted my cjo about 2 months before the increase.
I don’t think before the pay raise or after really matters.

It might matter if class dates are a long ways out (or no communication) when there is a standing class date sooner with another carrier.

It's summertime and there is a lack of instructors, LCAs, and just about everything in between. Things will settle down in the fall, especially with the incipient economic slowdown. Just hope the airlines don't become as much of a victim of Building Back Better as the rest of the economy is about to be.

Have you been able to get through to anyone? I've read your posts and they sound identical to my experience with them. My recruiter is giving me no answers and the last few days I haven't even gotten through to them on the phone or email. At this point I just want to verify I'm on the list to be called.

All my correspondences with them have been vague and nonchalant. I stopped trying to contact them and haven’t reached out in several weeks. It just wasn’t getting anywhere. If you’re sitting around waiting to be called be prepared to wait awhile.

Ditto on what Planegeek said. I can’t get an answer or any info from Envoy… have an Oct class date with SkyWest. (Interviewed with 00 two weeks AFTER Envoy). Plan to get flying as soon as I can even if it’s half pay and no bonuses. Frustrating about lack of communication though.

If you are new to 121 world, in this job market you want the first possible class date and stick to it. The regional money is pennies over what you will make in your career, and delaying your legacy class date costs you 30-40k/month at the end of your career.

In theory. In practice, go where you'd be ok next five years (or more, should things come to screeching halt).
Class date now or in a month, how long till done with IOE etc - it seems important, but it isn't.

It’s not just a month. It’s an in determinant amount of time. I still don’t have a class date and I’ve been waiting over 6 weeks to even schedule one with them.

I do agree if it’s a difference of only a few weeks and you can confirm you have a date then go with where you’d be happy getting stuck. But I have to agree with the above that if it’s between starting somewhere now vs 6 months or more then go where you can begin your career sooner. I’m scrambling now to figure out additional interviews since envoy was my only option and I’m ready to move on after waiting this long

This delay of publishing class dates is concerning. I had an interview with SkyWest last month and received a class date for Jan 2023 (E175). Then I was recently asked if I could start in Oct 2022 but I had to say no since I'm still sitting around 600hrs (150hrs short). Apparently, SkyWest is doubling their class size so if you're not worried about pay then SkyWest maybe an option. Just food for thought.

For 6-7 months in 2018 we didn't hire anyone but cadets and RTP to clean up the backlog of those.
Current situation is probably similar in a sense that there is an influx of prior 121 people and the recruiting is trying to figure out when they can put who in class. I get it, got the mins, interviewed, CJO, all ready to go and nothing is happening. Annoying. Make a decision that you are going to be context with in the long run. Delays aren't forever.

Stupid thing to say. “Yea I’ll go make peanuts” Please go to skywest.
Btw the wait time for IOE there is 3+ months

Stupid to accept an offer when it's the only one on the table?

I'm OO just browsing some threads here. My very recent wait for IOE was only 10 days. If you're in the ERJ, waits are quick. CRJ, waits are 6 months.

Right now going any regional but an AA w/o regional is a costly financial decision. Money doesn't matter to everyone though, it has died off more recently but around the time I got hired a lot of people had huge trust funds.

Any update on non-121 candidates getting class dates? Or are they still being sidelined?

The class that started last Monday has 3-5 Part 121 folks and 35-ish CFI’s

Kind of surprised by the low number of 121 people but I imagine in the upcoming classes that number is going to be increasing substantially.

PSA vs Envoy
 

Good Afternoon everyone

I have CJO for both PSA and ENVOY same class dates, unsure what to choose...

Does someone have insight on the training timeline for both PSA and Envoy?

Thanks

Check the other thread for my advice.

The abbreviated version is go to a regional that has a base where you already live/can drive to, are willing to move to or have a one leg commute on company metal to.

If that doesn’t apply to either one and it does to another regional, go there. Otherwise be prepared for commuting hell, especially to reserve.

Which has a base where you live or is the easiest commute?

^^ This.

Filler.

Agree with what others said about bases/commuting.

Curious when your class dates are if your don’t mind sharing or PM? Timeline from CJO to class date?

Anyone- how often do new classes begin? All I have to compare to are 6-8 month law enforcement academies that only run 2, sometimes 3, per year. So I’m genuinely curious on how many people can be trained up and flying in year?

Classes start every Monday. You will not get a class date until you have been approved by the Captain Review Board (at 1260TT for ATP, less for RATP). Once approved and you are 40 hours away from ATP/RATP mins then they will complete your file and assign you a ATP/CTP class date at a minimum of 3-weeks or more out (so you can give your employer your 2-week notice). After completion of ATP/CTP, then you will get a class date for Indoc about a week or two later. This keeps the amount of last min no-shows to a minimum (folks that don’t get their time in, in the estimated time-frame the applicant thought)

I’ve been waiting 2 months for them to “get back to me” before they schedule me. I let them know sometime in early may I was at my hours. Classes are only twice a month according to an email they sent me and as of now all scheduled classes are full. They are backed up with new intake. Anyone who may have had a cjo from early on might be higher in line

Classes (indoc) are actually every other Monday. Next one should be July 25. You can do the math from there. They quit bringing in people early to “on board” and get you on the payroll. Now that there is an obvious interest and back log, no reason to pay people to sit.


There is a class drop list thread, but it’s only updated if someone either in the class itself or otherwise in training and gets the info and posts it.

Still nothing you've heard?

I’ve heard plenty. Been in contact with them nearly every other week. Everytime they tell me they don’t have anything open and no indication on where I am on the list or how long I’ll have to wait. It’s not like I’ve been ghosted. They just won’t schedule me anything.

How far back do they say their classes are, October, November, December, longer? Or is it just 'indefinitely'?

Indefinite. I’ve said it a couple times but to quote them exactly “we don’t have any open classes at the moment, we will reach out when we can schedule you” they aren’t giving dates or timelines. You’re basically put in a folder of people awaiting a date. As far as how many classes they have scheduled out that I’m not sure. I was only told the next class was the 25th and it was full. I’d also imagine though that at least have the following month already scheduled too.

For everyone’s point of reference, are you in the Envoy Cadet program?

There does seem to be a hierarchy of Cadet/prior 121/off the street but of course they seem to be mum about what any of those numbers are so still no way to judge. It still seems that the priority is anyone that has prior 121 time and then anyone else that already has an ATP. Apparently Cadets are no longer the Envoy golden children they once were. Or maybe there is just so many that even if you are in the program you just have to wait your turn.

Not a cadet and no 121 time. Just a cfi and I got my cjo in march or April. From a couple other people on various posts classes seemed to be mostly non121 the past month with only a couple people each class having previous 121. My friend was a cadet at atp who just went to ctp and was the only person from envoy there. There’s definitely a hierarchy and priority system but no telling what it is also just of note my friend also doesn’t have a class date and envoy wouldn’t confirm one till after ctp which was two weeks ago

Imo they are giving priority to previous hires awaiting class. Those that were backlogged and given the orientation and on payroll but awaiting class. Then 121 then cadets. As more previous 121 and cadets come online awaiting class they jump the queue of those waiting for for a date with lower priority.

That all sounds reasonable. Keep the faith and stay positive. Do things to make yourself better in the meantime.

Received my CJO last week about 5 weeks post interview. No 121 time, no ATP, 1700 hrs part 91 corporate with some part 61 instruction as well. I get that Envoy doesn’t want to disclose the wait times and is sorting through the apps and training delays- it just makes it difficult to play the chess game when other regionals have offered class dates in the near future. I know folks that are taking the “bird in hand” and starting class in the next 2 weeks at other regionals in hopes of getting in and out of the regionals quickly (possibly even quicker upgrade times if so many folks are going to AA WO). The pay is certainly hard to ignore, but if it’s a 6-8 month wait for class, then another 6 months to complete IOE, that could be lots of 121 flight hours lost and if the pay premium ends in 2024, maybe it makes more sense to get the resume for a larger carrier as soon as possible. Just thinking out loud.