Chato

They’ve been doing this for so long that just the thought of doing things differently stresses them out because they don't know a different way, this is what they're comfortable with and this is what they know.

In order to grow and evolve you need to change/adapt and that just wont happen unless there are changes in management core.

Fortunately the market on its own is teaching some lessons.

NoValueAviator

This has always been their line - project strength because people don’t want to work somewhere that has issues. The number of recruits is down and the quality is WAY down. Many people with unsuitable dispositions to be FOs much less captains are getting offers right now.

It remains to be seen where all this leads but an LCA recently told me the answer is a smoking hole in the ground, sooner or later.

pitchattitude

Well, of course they are. This is the same people claiming a five year flow and $180K plus new hire bonus.

It will be interesting to see how many, if any, they get that are anywhere near the time to be DECs. Just don’t see anywhere people could be coming from that would be worth leaving ANY seniority behind. Maybe a few that have been out of the game for a while and have some dusty hours that can be counted.

Propeller

Perhaps they should read the book they sent. Management here fails to understand the leadership vs management concept. The carrot and stick is all their small minds can grasp

pitchattitude

Well, of course they are. This is the same people claiming a five year flow and $180K plus new hire bonus.

It will be interesting to see how many, if any, they get that are anywhere near the time to be DECs. Just don’t see anywhere people could be coming from that would be worth leaving ANY seniority behind. Maybe a few that have been out of the game for a while and have some dusty hours that can be counted.

ZeroTT

No ... expanding

FO's are pretty much a renewable resource and, assuming infinite capacity to recruit and train, can be replaced over and over and over again with no fundamental threat to the system. Captains and LCA's however, pretty much have to be grown in house. Yes DEC's are a thing but there's not a huge supply of regional applicants with upgrade mins.

So you need FO's to stick around until they upgrade. And then you need the new captains to stick around long enough to fly 1000 hours with their replacement. And you need a subset of those people to stay as LCA's. And you need a decent number of captains and FO's to sit around doing nothing on reserve (ie not getting closer to 1000 hours). You can make various assumptions, but more or less you need the average new hire to stay 4-5 years.

Current situation sounds like 50% annualized turnover, call that 66% turnover for captains. Flight hours will shrink to the captain supply. Captain supply will shrink to the sim/lca supply. And lca supply will shrink to the extent they bother to fill out an application anywhere else.

100% turnover in 24 months, as noted, is rapid progression to unemployment.

rondonq1

Envoy have been selling flow now for more years than I count. Back in SJU in early 2000 time, they telling everyone 5 year flow to AA. Same book of play today but different caracters calling plays.
Many many guys buy into this flow nonsense and go to Envoy for wrong reasons. It might be time where they can not get pilot anymore and have big problem.

airlinenewhire

Question... Does Envoy allow new hires to train on IPT's (touch screen cockpits) alone, without an instructor? How many IPT's are there in the training center

pitchattitude

No.

Not sure how many they have now, but have to have an instructor present. Not even upgrades can play without adult supervision.

3GreenKSNA

We do have mouse activated sims you can use, they are available anytime a class isn't utilizing the FMS lab.

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