Envoy's future

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07-13-2014 | 09:37 AM

#2161

RJ Pilot

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From: GV Captain

Quote:

Originally Posted by hungryCFI

Is "Flying Safe" code for something?

A Slow down promoted by Alpa. ex. Placards missing or unreadable etc. Write it up.

07-13-2014 | 09:39 AM

#2162

Mason32

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From: Reclined

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gspeed

I'd say it worked out pretty well for many of the flows who got numbers. Some flowed right away and a large portion got to sit at the top of the Eagle seniority list with all the pay and benefits and QOL that comes with that, and then subsequently flowed at 4th year pay. Not too shabby.

You're taking it out of context. It was in response to a very junior FO wanting to accept any concession they offer if it looks like it will get him to AA sooner. He is not a senior CA who can sit making an okay living waiting 10-13 years to flow. He already admitted he voted yes to that insult they threw at you. Heck, 6 of your MEC reps abstained rather than approve that POS. It was a brilliant way to let you guys vote, while clearly saying they do not endorse it.

Will the next deal be roses and cake, no. However, it won't be the poison pill they tried to force feed you either. Bzzzt and his ilk will eat whatever they're given, so the rest of you should plan for an automatic 30% yes without even having seen the product.

07-13-2014 | 09:39 AM

#2163

WBTYM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvw700

I heard it rumored that Mesa may get another 20 airplanes next year.... Wonder which ones? My guess is another 20 175's go to Mesa and the latest talks were absolutely another whipsaw attempt! Hope I'm wrong!

I hope you are wrong too, but I really don't have a good gut feeling about this.

I don't think this is going to end well for Envoy.

Paycuts or Comair. That is our choice.

And then in the not to distant future we will hear how some pilot group are being threatened with being "Envoyed"...

07-13-2014 | 09:39 AM

#2164

Feng

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32

Ask the guys who got actual seniority numbers almost 16 years ago how getting numbers worked out. You all say numbers are the holy grail of flow thru. This time due to retirements it should work out; however you're 1 bombing away from being stuck where you are now.
You negotiate and plan accordingly.

It isn't about flow through gentlemen. It's about making where you are the best it can be.

Got to agree with the others, the numbered flows made it out quite well, even the ones that had to wait 16 years. What were their options without the flow really? They'd be Envoy lifers still.

Like others have said, many, many also made it out like bandits. Top dog seniority/bennies at eagle, go over at 4th year pay with retro bennies and skipping reserve and the suicide decade at AA, flowing just in time for an 100K BK check.

07-13-2014 | 09:41 AM

#2165

AnotherEagleGuy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by hungryCFI

How bout nobody post anything to this thread unless they have concrete proof of something happening with Envoy. All of this doom and gloom conjecture is really killing it.

Envoy official new released today, two items.

1. There is no new information or news.
2. PSA still sucks, especially Pagey.

That last item has concrete proof.

07-13-2014 | 09:48 AM

#2166

Mason32

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From: Reclined

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagey

Why pose a "question" about what has more value when apparently your underlying motive is "stand strong no matter what."

Those are the questions you need to ask yourselves to decide if it's concessions, or smart trading.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pagey

Your first instinct is to lash out that I can't read yet you are posting stuff that is mostly contradictory. You just told Bzzt he needed to leave the industry for considering the possibility of a cap after you post the above?

The signals are mixed.

And he should leave. We don't need weaklings like him infecting the ranks at legacy carriers. He'll get here, and trade scope for bigger pay because it helps him. Just like he'll trade concessions now, if it helps him. If he leaves the industry like he keeps threatening to do, it helps us all and makes us stronger.

Do not confuse me presenting the companies viewpoint with my own.
Everybody here knows my viewpoint already. What I can bring you is theirs. When I have it, I present it. It's that simple.

07-13-2014 | 09:50 AM

#2167

pagey

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From: Left

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnotherEagleGuy

Envoy official new released today, two items.

1. There is no new information or news.
2. PSA still sucks, especially Pagey.

That last item has concrete proof.

Whatever. Can't be loved by everybody.

On a separate note, I was just conversing. I mentioned not one thing about PSA

Nice to see you again.

07-13-2014 | 09:55 AM

#2168

Mason32

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From: Reclined

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feng

You are looking at it completely wrong. They were sold a crappy contract in the late 90's while being told they'd all be at AA within a couple of years. Sound familiar? They waited 13. If it had not been for 9-11 the AE-Envoy contract would have been the laughing stock of the industry. In fact, the flow stopped BEFORE 9-11 when AMR began buying other airlines.

07-13-2014 | 10:00 AM

#2169

pagey

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From: Left

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mason32

Those are the questions you need to ask yourselves to decide if it's concessions, or smart trading.

And he should leave. We don't need weaklings like him infecting the ranks at legacy carriers. He'll get here, and trade scope for bigger pay because it helps him. Just like he'll trade concessions now, if it helps him. If he leaves the industry like he keeps threatening to do, it helps us all and makes us stronger.

Do not confuse me presenting the companies viewpoint with my own.
Everybody here knows my viewpoint already. What I can bring you is theirs. When I have it, I present it. It's that simple.

I don't really think that comparison sticks.

Negotiations at a mainline carrier are very different than negotiations at a regional.

At what point is someone looked down upon, and called a weakling for accepting "smart trading?"

Is your idea of "smart trading" A Delta guy's idea of "concessions?"

We already got worked over by AAG where I work. I would like to think Eagle can do better, and I want them to but it seems like a stretch at this point.

07-13-2014 | 10:01 AM

#2170

Spoiler

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I can see mixed signals as well.
Concessions means concessions. Call it smart trading but it is still concessions. No doubt they plan to give the next 40 to others IMO and there is little we can do about it.
Not only that, but even if we do come groveling, hat in hand, tails tucked between our legs - they will not be able to hire/staff them and will end up sending them elsewhere.
The LEC CA Rep in a rare moment made the observation that AAG would most likely implode envoy by trying to outsource the refleeting.
The hemorrhaging is probably unstoppable at this point and to reload the pipeline with applicants is more of a gargantuan task than many think.