Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Regional > Envoy Airlines
ENVOY presented with details on new contract >

ENVOY presented with details on new contract

Search

Notices
Envoy Airlines Regional Airline

ENVOY presented with details on new contract

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 11-20-2014 | 07:58 AM
  #161  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,097
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by tom11011
Just wait until the seniority lists are merged. 8 year Envoy FO's will be saluting 1 year PSA Captains.

Envoy pilots are in a bind, you have too much heavy weight at the top of your seniority list to survive. Everytime an FO leaves Envoy and your seniority list shrinks, the cost of labor just continues to escalate.

The only thing that matters to American is 12/4 that's it, it's the key to everything including your merger.
NO PSA CA should ever be saluted to. I can think of another hand gesture that they should be "blessed" with.
Reply
Old 11-20-2014 | 08:51 AM
  #162  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 243
Likes: 0
Default

It's sad to see that pilots think their salary is the reason a company is uncompetitive.
Reply
Old 11-20-2014 | 09:01 AM
  #163  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,154
Likes: 18
Default

Originally Posted by Tsuda
It's sad to see that pilots think their salary is the reason a company is uncompetitive.
Considering labor is generally any companies number 1 expense (with fuel costs being an airline exception), maybe you could elaborate on your viewpoint a little for us.
Reply
Old 11-20-2014 | 10:19 AM
  #164  
seafeye's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,203
Likes: 0
From: Hot tub for now
Default

Look at Airways/AA proposed rates. I think they can pay regional pilots more.
Reply
Old 11-20-2014 | 10:32 AM
  #165  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,154
Likes: 18
Default

Originally Posted by seafeye
Look at Airways/AA proposed rates. I think they can pay regional pilots more.
Airways/AA aircraft carry twice the amount of passengers per airplane, essentially twice the revenue per pilot.

The real problem is you the pilot.

Airways/AA knows what you are willing to work for so they only offer so much money to the regional to do the flying. As long as you are willing to work for low pay, they are willing pay you low pay.

If you collectively say no I'm not willing to work for that kind of money, then they have no choice but to pay higher. That isn't happening with the current crop of pilots. Millenials on the other hand are smarter than the current crop of pilots. They are steering away from the industry because they know better.

You can't wish something into existence. What's the incentive for a corporation to give you an employee more money? What leverage do you have? Why should they care? It's no different than a Captain, you think he cares what an FO makes now that he's Captain? He cares only so much as it doesn't impact his earnings and earnings potential.
Reply
Old 11-20-2014 | 11:12 AM
  #166  
seafeye's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,203
Likes: 0
From: Hot tub for now
Default

Even Kirby mentioned that Airways/AA could save 10's of millions of dollars having regional airlines doing some of their flying. The money is there. Just how we get it is the question.

And to comment on your statement about Mainline carrying more passengers...
True, but it will always be cheaper to put 40 passengers on a 50 seat jet than a 70.
And 65 on a 70 rather than a 90.....
You cannot fill a A380 from FAY to CLT.
Reply
Old 11-20-2014 | 11:16 AM
  #167  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 3,154
Likes: 18
Default

Originally Posted by seafeye
Even Kirby mentioned that Airways/AA could save 10's of millions of dollars having regional airlines doing some of their flying. The money is there. Just how we get it is the question.

And to comment on your statement about Mainline carrying more passengers...
True, but it will always be cheaper to put 40 passengers on a 50 seat jet than a 70.
And 65 on a 70 rather than a 90.....
You cannot fill a A380 from FAY to CLT.
That's called selling scope. Major airline pilots routinely sell scope to enrich themselves in exchange for giving flying away to a regional contractor.

If I may, I think you are looking at this situation upside down. Why try to "get it"? Why take on more flying at this level? You know 70 seat airplanes could be flown at the big airlines right?
Reply
Old 11-20-2014 | 12:24 PM
  #168  
seafeye's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,203
Likes: 0
From: Hot tub for now
Default

Hell I've always thought that anything that is a jet should be at mainline.
Too bad that jet has sailed.
Reply
Old 11-20-2014 | 01:09 PM
  #169  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by tom11011
Considering labor is generally any companies number 1 expense (with fuel costs being an airline exception), maybe you could elaborate on your viewpoint a little for us.








Fuel is the highest cost for airlines and this cost has been dropping steadily, combined with ticket price increases and all kinds of additional fees, all airlines are making record profits. There is no need or justification for any additional concessions by flight crews, and in fact we are long overdue for large increases to finally halt the total destruction of this profession/career.
The staffing issues at the lowest paying regionals(look at what's happening at Endeavor), are just getting started, and will only get worse in the coming years. Management has managed to decimate the pay and benefits to the point that no one can justify the huge expense required to become a professional pilot, only to make wages that qualify for food stamps.
Reply
Old 11-20-2014 | 01:10 PM
  #170  
billyho's Avatar
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,450
Likes: 0
Default

Originally Posted by tom11011
Airways/AA aircraft carry twice the amount of passengers per airplane, essentially twice the revenue per pilot.

Have you ever flown 6 legs with 50 people on the plane each time? Hmmm comes out to 300 people.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Guard Dude
Delta
201736
04-06-2022 06:59 AM
Romulus
Envoy Airlines
16
10-15-2014 05:47 PM
Mitch Rapp05
United
49
11-22-2013 07:13 AM
BoredwLife
Major
1
07-16-2008 01:27 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



Your Privacy Choices