ENVOY presented with details on new contract
11-07-2014 | 11:23 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Not a vary smart plan if it is. The risk is what if attrition exceeds the rate at which they can replace the flying. If it does, they have to relinquish market share to competitors that is very difficult to regain.
Isn't there a no furlough clause at Envoy ?
Most of the pilots leaving in uncontrolled fashion (to outside carriers) aren't outside the proposed 12/4 caps, so little to be gained there. No, I think Envoy is essentially become a rudderless ship loaded with pilots looking for a life raft. The majority who stick it out are all senior topped out 18-year lifers like RJ pilot and then what have they got left ?
A carrier that will HAVE to be subject to consolidation to reset the remaining lifers compensation (if they want to stay). Right now, they've just decided to burn the furniture to heat the house until it's time to torch it for the insurance (asset acquisition with an offer of employment, a'la TWA).
Isn't there a no furlough clause at Envoy ?
Most of the pilots leaving in uncontrolled fashion (to outside carriers) aren't outside the proposed 12/4 caps, so little to be gained there. No, I think Envoy is essentially become a rudderless ship loaded with pilots looking for a life raft. The majority who stick it out are all senior topped out 18-year lifers like RJ pilot and then what have they got left ?
A carrier that will HAVE to be subject to consolidation to reset the remaining lifers compensation (if they want to stay). Right now, they've just decided to burn the furniture to heat the house until it's time to torch it for the insurance (asset acquisition with an offer of employment, a'la TWA).
Honest question. Out of curiosity what makes you think there is any similarity between asset acquisition of Envoy and TWA? Or am I not understanding correct?
Because Envoy does not own the airplanes nor any other asset, it's owned already by AAG. Whereas TWA was its own separate company at the time of AMR acquisition. Therefore if AAG wanted to close up Envoy Flight Ops there is really not a whole lot to prohibit it, and it would not be necessary to offer employment for those pilots left if they didn't want to.
I'm not implying a shutdown will or will not happen, but curious how you came to that conclusion relating Envoy to TWA, unless I'm not understanding your statement.
11-07-2014 | 01:44 PM
#82
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
[/B]
Honest question. Out of curiosity what makes you think there is any similarity between asset acquisition of Envoy and TWA? Or am I not understanding correct?
Because Envoy does not own the airplanes nor any other asset, it's owned already by AAG. Whereas TWA was its own separate company at the time of AMR acquisition. Therefore if AAG wanted to close up Envoy Flight Ops there is really not a whole lot to prohibit it, and it would not be necessary to offer employment for those pilots left if they didn't want to.
I'm not implying a shutdown will or will not happen, but curious how you came to that conclusion relating Envoy to TWA, unless I'm not understanding your statement.
Honest question. Out of curiosity what makes you think there is any similarity between asset acquisition of Envoy and TWA? Or am I not understanding correct?
Because Envoy does not own the airplanes nor any other asset, it's owned already by AAG. Whereas TWA was its own separate company at the time of AMR acquisition. Therefore if AAG wanted to close up Envoy Flight Ops there is really not a whole lot to prohibit it, and it would not be necessary to offer employment for those pilots left if they didn't want to.
I'm not implying a shutdown will or will not happen, but curious how you came to that conclusion relating Envoy to TWA, unless I'm not understanding your statement.
No.
But Envoy does have assets besides aircraft (including labor) which could be acquired by another entity or "absorbed" by another wholly-owned operation that has its own management and assets. AAG is still as much of a corporate shell game as it was when Arpey ran it and it was AMR. As pilots bail from Envoy including flowing to AA and it becomes smaller, its percentage of "topped out" senior pilots (in both seats) increases and in effect, it becomes even MORE uncompetitive from a labor cost standpoint. That means ultimately, SOMETHING has to give to "reset" those remaining pilots (and likely even F/A's) to the equivalent of lower scale.
Thus, at some point in the fairly near future, whenever the trigger is pulled on whatever "transaction" occurs involving Envoy, those high cost employees will have to accept new employment at substantially reduced rates if they want the opportunity to transfer via an "offer of employment". Those who do would likely face an arbitrated seniority process as well. Those who don't ?
Well, they'll either get a "we wish you well in your future endeavors" statement as they exit or like the other poster stated, they'll not get so much as a "harrumph" in acknowledgement for perhaps decades of loyal service. Don't expect much from Envoy going forward no matter what Glass waves in front of your face. This is what those here advocating dropping to their knees either fail to or refuse to understand (although a couple have deliberately ulterior motives). Expecting anything good by giving more concessions at this point is essentially milking a dead cow.
11-07-2014 | 02:06 PM
#83
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Mimic the TWA transaction ?
No.
But Envoy does have assets besides aircraft (including labor) which could be acquired by another entity or "absorbed" by another wholly-owned operation that has its own management and assets. AAG is still as much of a corporate shell game as it was when Arpey ran it and it was AMR. As pilots bail from Envoy including flowing to AA and it becomes smaller, its percentage of "topped out" senior pilots (in both seats) increases and in effect, it becomes even MORE uncompetitive from a labor cost standpoint. That means ultimately, SOMETHING has to give to "reset" those remaining pilots (and likely even F/A's) to the equivalent of lower scale.
Thus, at some point in the fairly near future, whenever the trigger is pulled on whatever "transaction" occurs involving Envoy, those high cost employees will have to accept new employment at substantially reduced rates if they want the opportunity to transfer via an "offer of employment". Those who do would likely face an arbitrated seniority process as well. Those who don't ?
Well, they'll either get a "we wish you well in your future endeavors" statement as they exit or like the other poster stated, they'll not get so much as a "harrumph" in acknowledgement for perhaps decades of loyal service. Don't expect much from Envoy going forward no matter what Glass waves in front of your face. This is what those here advocating dropping to their knees either fail to or refuse to understand (although a couple have deliberately ulterior motives). Expecting anything good by giving more concessions at this point is essentially milking a dead cow.
No.
But Envoy does have assets besides aircraft (including labor) which could be acquired by another entity or "absorbed" by another wholly-owned operation that has its own management and assets. AAG is still as much of a corporate shell game as it was when Arpey ran it and it was AMR. As pilots bail from Envoy including flowing to AA and it becomes smaller, its percentage of "topped out" senior pilots (in both seats) increases and in effect, it becomes even MORE uncompetitive from a labor cost standpoint. That means ultimately, SOMETHING has to give to "reset" those remaining pilots (and likely even F/A's) to the equivalent of lower scale.
Thus, at some point in the fairly near future, whenever the trigger is pulled on whatever "transaction" occurs involving Envoy, those high cost employees will have to accept new employment at substantially reduced rates if they want the opportunity to transfer via an "offer of employment". Those who do would likely face an arbitrated seniority process as well. Those who don't ?
Well, they'll either get a "we wish you well in your future endeavors" statement as they exit or like the other poster stated, they'll not get so much as a "harrumph" in acknowledgement for perhaps decades of loyal service. Don't expect much from Envoy going forward no matter what Glass waves in front of your face. This is what those here advocating dropping to their knees either fail to or refuse to understand (although a couple have deliberately ulterior motives). Expecting anything good by giving more concessions at this point is essentially milking a dead cow.
11-09-2014 | 06:29 AM
#87
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,041
Likes: 0
From: GV Captain
Ingredients
Nonstick cooking spray, for greasing
1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
2 teaspoons House Seasoning, recipe follows
Eight 4-ounce boneless, skinless chicken breasts, pounded
1 1/2 cups low-fat buttermilk
3 tablespoons olive oil
1 1/2 teaspoons cornstarch
One 14-ounce can reduced-sodium chicken broth
1/4 cup sliced Vidalia onion
1/2 cup reduced-fat 1-percent milk
1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
2 green onions, chopped
House Seasoning
1 cup kosher salt
1/4 cup garlic powder
1/4 cup ground black pepper
Directions
Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F. Spray a baking sheet with nonstick cooking spray.
Mix together the flour and 1 teaspoon of the House Seasoning in a small bowl. Sprinkle the chicken with the remaining 1 teaspoon House Seasoning. Pour the buttermilk into a shallow dish. Dredge the chicken in the buttermilk, followed by the flour.
Heat 2 tablespoons of the oil in a heavy nonstick skillet over medium-high heat. Add half of the chicken breasts to the hot oil and cook until both sides are browned, about 3 minutes per side, and then transfer to the baking sheet. Repeat with the remaining chicken breasts. Transfer the baking sheet to the oven and bake until the chicken is cooked through, about 10 minutes.
Whisk together the cornstarch and 1/4 cup chicken broth until dissolved. Set aside.
To make the gravy , add the remaining 1 tablespoon oil to the same skillet and heat over medium heat. Add the onions and saute until translucent, about 2 minutes.
Add the remaining chicken broth, scrape the pan drippings with a wooden spoon, raise the heat to medium-high and cook until the mixture begins to bubble, about 2 minutes. Stir in the dissolved cornstarch to incorporate. Bring to a simmer and continue to cook until the mixture thickens, 4 to 5 minutes. Stir in the milk and black pepper and continue cooking over medium-high heat until thickened, 5 minutes longer.
Remove the chicken from the oven and top each piece with 4 teaspoons of the gravy. Sprinkle with the chopped green onions.
Mix together the salt, garlic powder and pepper.
Nonstick cooking spray, for greasing
1 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
2 teaspoons House Seasoning, recipe follows
Eight 4-ounce boneless, skinless chicken breasts, pounded
1 1/2 cups low-fat buttermilk
3 tablespoons olive oil
1 1/2 teaspoons cornstarch
One 14-ounce can reduced-sodium chicken broth
1/4 cup sliced Vidalia onion
1/2 cup reduced-fat 1-percent milk
1/4 teaspoon freshly ground black pepper
2 green onions, chopped
House Seasoning
1 cup kosher salt
1/4 cup garlic powder
1/4 cup ground black pepper
Directions
Preheat the oven to 350 degrees F. Spray a baking sheet with nonstick cooking spray.
Mix together the flour and 1 teaspoon of the House Seasoning in a small bowl. Sprinkle the chicken with the remaining 1 teaspoon House Seasoning. Pour the buttermilk into a shallow dish. Dredge the chicken in the buttermilk, followed by the flour.
Heat 2 tablespoons of the oil in a heavy nonstick skillet over medium-high heat. Add half of the chicken breasts to the hot oil and cook until both sides are browned, about 3 minutes per side, and then transfer to the baking sheet. Repeat with the remaining chicken breasts. Transfer the baking sheet to the oven and bake until the chicken is cooked through, about 10 minutes.
Whisk together the cornstarch and 1/4 cup chicken broth until dissolved. Set aside.
To make the gravy , add the remaining 1 tablespoon oil to the same skillet and heat over medium heat. Add the onions and saute until translucent, about 2 minutes.
Add the remaining chicken broth, scrape the pan drippings with a wooden spoon, raise the heat to medium-high and cook until the mixture begins to bubble, about 2 minutes. Stir in the dissolved cornstarch to incorporate. Bring to a simmer and continue to cook until the mixture thickens, 4 to 5 minutes. Stir in the milk and black pepper and continue cooking over medium-high heat until thickened, 5 minutes longer.
Remove the chicken from the oven and top each piece with 4 teaspoons of the gravy. Sprinkle with the chopped green onions.
Mix together the salt, garlic powder and pepper.
...voted no too
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
