ENVOY presented with details on new contract
...voted no too
11-11-2014 | 08:55 PM
#104
Banned
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Likes: 0
Yes they do, but it's worth less than the paper it is written on.
Furloughing is costly and that's what is stopping Envoy from furloughing. Not because they can't, but because it's there are cheaper methods of reducing a pilot group.
Fear and intimidation such as saying the airline will be shut down or turned into a ground operation, promises to give away all the 70 seat aircraft and shrinking the airline into nothing by slowly retiring all 50-seaters and by closing bases one by one until there are none.
Furloughing is costly and that's what is stopping Envoy from furloughing. Not because they can't, but because it's there are cheaper methods of reducing a pilot group.
Fear and intimidation such as saying the airline will be shut down or turned into a ground operation, promises to give away all the 70 seat aircraft and shrinking the airline into nothing by slowly retiring all 50-seaters and by closing bases one by one until there are none.
11-12-2014 | 06:35 AM
#105
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
That is really easier said than done in many cases. The company can't just send an entire base worth of flying to a different company,since that particular base is geographically located for a reason.
The other company can't simply absorb anything thrown at it either.
Base closings are for strategic reasons, but a company may try to intimidate their employees by making these threats. Close a base while claiming it is a direct result of the failed union contract....or something.
The other company can't simply absorb anything thrown at it either.
Base closings are for strategic reasons, but a company may try to intimidate their employees by making these threats. Close a base while claiming it is a direct result of the failed union contract....or something.
11-12-2014 | 06:36 AM
#106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
From: CRJ
You're preaching to the choir, brutha. The furlough protection IS worth the paper it's printed on unless Envoy pilots CBA is nullified. That being said, normal attrition will prevent furloughs up to a point and then the problem is the opposite for management........then they have to worry about too much attrition too fast.
11-12-2014 | 04:41 PM
#107
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
The no furlough clause was a direct result of having a fleet plan guarantee removed by the company at the last minute of bankruptcy negotiations. Or so we were led to believe. Did we really give up the fleet plan or did we have no real choice in the matter? Obviously speaking in terms of while we were in BK, not since then.
11-13-2014 | 07:01 AM
#108
New Hire
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
clarification
One of our MEC members is stating that the reason there is no TA is because management refuses to place a better flow or substantial fleet plan on the table. I'm not sure what negotiations he is watching, maybe it is the APFA flight attendants, but AA and Envoy management are offering a minimum flow of 30 per month and 360 per year. I may not be a math genius but 30 per month and 360 per year MINIMUM is greater than 20 per month and 240 per year. If our MEC had shared management's proposal with you, you would already know that.
With reference to a "substantial fleet plan," you may recall that a year ago, management offered a minimum fleet plan of 170 aircraft (2 times higher than the only other fleet plan in the regional industry) but Envoy pilots rejected it after the MEC told us the pilot shortage would cause management to come crawling back to the table. In reality, management went out and placed 40 of our aircraft at cheaper regionals and is now back offering us the remaining 130. Hard to offer a fleet plan greater than the orders and options you have on the table and don't forget that we're the ones that turned down the fleet plan.
What the MEC is not telling you, is that they have been told that there is a deadline coming up and if the Envoy pilots don't ratify a deal in short order, more of the remaining orders are already slated to go to another carrier.
So while the gentleman from New York is telling you that management isn't offering an enhanced flow (untrue) and a substantial fleet plan (management is offering us the remaining orders and options), the truth is that we are heading toward a cliff and no one on the MEC feels that it is appropriate to tell you the truth.
Some of you claim that I am a management spy, which is not true. I am just an average line pilot with his ear to the ground. But regardless of what you believe I am, the truth is that the MEC is playing games and hiding facts from the pilots whose jobs are on the line. You might want to ask "why"?
With reference to a "substantial fleet plan," you may recall that a year ago, management offered a minimum fleet plan of 170 aircraft (2 times higher than the only other fleet plan in the regional industry) but Envoy pilots rejected it after the MEC told us the pilot shortage would cause management to come crawling back to the table. In reality, management went out and placed 40 of our aircraft at cheaper regionals and is now back offering us the remaining 130. Hard to offer a fleet plan greater than the orders and options you have on the table and don't forget that we're the ones that turned down the fleet plan.
What the MEC is not telling you, is that they have been told that there is a deadline coming up and if the Envoy pilots don't ratify a deal in short order, more of the remaining orders are already slated to go to another carrier.
So while the gentleman from New York is telling you that management isn't offering an enhanced flow (untrue) and a substantial fleet plan (management is offering us the remaining orders and options), the truth is that we are heading toward a cliff and no one on the MEC feels that it is appropriate to tell you the truth.
Some of you claim that I am a management spy, which is not true. I am just an average line pilot with his ear to the ground. But regardless of what you believe I am, the truth is that the MEC is playing games and hiding facts from the pilots whose jobs are on the line. You might want to ask "why"?
11-13-2014 | 07:07 AM
#109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 906
Likes: 0
From: Just another RJ guy
One of our MEC members is stating that the reason there is no TA is because management refuses to place a better flow or substantial fleet plan on the table. I'm not sure what negotiations he is watching, maybe it is the APFA flight attendants, but AA and Envoy management are offering a minimum flow of 30 per month and 360 per year. I may not be a math genius but 30 per month and 360 per year MINIMUM is greater than 20 per month and 240 per year. If our MEC had shared management's proposal with you, you would already know that.
With reference to a "substantial fleet plan," you may recall that a year ago, management offered a minimum fleet plan of 170 aircraft (2 times higher than the only other fleet plan in the regional industry) but Envoy pilots rejected it after the MEC told us the pilot shortage would cause management to come crawling back to the table. In reality, management went out and placed 40 of our aircraft at cheaper regionals and is now back offering us the remaining 130. Hard to offer a fleet plan greater than the orders and options you have on the table and don't forget that we're the ones that turned down the fleet plan.
What the MEC is not telling you, is that they have been told that there is a deadline coming up and if the Envoy pilots don't ratify a deal in short order, more of the remaining orders are already slated to go to another carrier.
So while the gentleman from New York is telling you that management isn't offering an enhanced flow (untrue) and a substantial fleet plan (management is offering us the remaining orders and options), the truth is that we are heading toward a cliff and no one on the MEC feels that it is appropriate to tell you the truth.
Some of you claim that I am a management spy, which is not true. I am just an average line pilot with his ear to the ground. But regardless of what you believe I am, the truth is that the MEC is playing games and hiding facts from the pilots whose jobs are on the line. You might want to ask "why"?
With reference to a "substantial fleet plan," you may recall that a year ago, management offered a minimum fleet plan of 170 aircraft (2 times higher than the only other fleet plan in the regional industry) but Envoy pilots rejected it after the MEC told us the pilot shortage would cause management to come crawling back to the table. In reality, management went out and placed 40 of our aircraft at cheaper regionals and is now back offering us the remaining 130. Hard to offer a fleet plan greater than the orders and options you have on the table and don't forget that we're the ones that turned down the fleet plan.
What the MEC is not telling you, is that they have been told that there is a deadline coming up and if the Envoy pilots don't ratify a deal in short order, more of the remaining orders are already slated to go to another carrier.
So while the gentleman from New York is telling you that management isn't offering an enhanced flow (untrue) and a substantial fleet plan (management is offering us the remaining orders and options), the truth is that we are heading toward a cliff and no one on the MEC feels that it is appropriate to tell you the truth.
Some of you claim that I am a management spy, which is not true. I am just an average line pilot with his ear to the ground. But regardless of what you believe I am, the truth is that the MEC is playing games and hiding facts from the pilots whose jobs are on the line. You might want to ask "why"?
11-13-2014 | 07:30 AM
#110
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
One of our MEC members is stating that the reason there is no TA is because management refuses to place a better flow or substantial fleet plan on the table. I'm not sure what negotiations he is watching, maybe it is the APFA flight attendants, but AA and Envoy management are offering a minimum flow of 30 per month and 360 per year. I may not be a math genius but 30 per month and 360 per year MINIMUM is greater than 20 per month and 240 per year. If our MEC had shared management's proposal with you, you would already know that.
With reference to a "substantial fleet plan," you may recall that a year ago, management offered a minimum fleet plan of 170 aircraft (2 times higher than the only other fleet plan in the regional industry) but Envoy pilots rejected it after the MEC told us the pilot shortage would cause management to come crawling back to the table. In reality, management went out and placed 40 of our aircraft at cheaper regionals and is now back offering us the remaining 130. Hard to offer a fleet plan greater than the orders and options you have on the table and don't forget that we're the ones that turned down the fleet plan.
What the MEC is not telling you, is that they have been told that there is a deadline coming up and if the Envoy pilots don't ratify a deal in short order, more of the remaining orders are already slated to go to another carrier.
So while the gentleman from New York is telling you that management isn't offering an enhanced flow (untrue) and a substantial fleet plan (management is offering us the remaining orders and options), the truth is that we are heading toward a cliff and no one on the MEC feels that it is appropriate to tell you the truth.
Some of you claim that I am a management spy, which is not true. I am just an average line pilot with his ear to the ground. But regardless of what you believe I am, the truth is that the MEC is playing games and hiding facts from the pilots whose jobs are on the line. You might want to ask "why"?
With reference to a "substantial fleet plan," you may recall that a year ago, management offered a minimum fleet plan of 170 aircraft (2 times higher than the only other fleet plan in the regional industry) but Envoy pilots rejected it after the MEC told us the pilot shortage would cause management to come crawling back to the table. In reality, management went out and placed 40 of our aircraft at cheaper regionals and is now back offering us the remaining 130. Hard to offer a fleet plan greater than the orders and options you have on the table and don't forget that we're the ones that turned down the fleet plan.
What the MEC is not telling you, is that they have been told that there is a deadline coming up and if the Envoy pilots don't ratify a deal in short order, more of the remaining orders are already slated to go to another carrier.
So while the gentleman from New York is telling you that management isn't offering an enhanced flow (untrue) and a substantial fleet plan (management is offering us the remaining orders and options), the truth is that we are heading toward a cliff and no one on the MEC feels that it is appropriate to tell you the truth.
Some of you claim that I am a management spy, which is not true. I am just an average line pilot with his ear to the ground. But regardless of what you believe I am, the truth is that the MEC is playing games and hiding facts from the pilots whose jobs are on the line. You might want to ask "why"?
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
