6 years with an option for 4 more is an eternity in the regional world....not short term at all.

I wouldn't call a 6 year deal with 2, 2 year automatic renewals based on performance a short term deal, and I'm willing to bet Compass will still be cheaper, at the end of 2015 our average seniority will be between 2-3 years of service...

Boy do I miss the Regionals. :sarcasm:


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100% as long as Envoy exists. It'll probably take a while though.

So, disappointments aside, if a pilot was shopping regionals at the moment would Envoy now be a good choice? Will there be movement/upgrades with the new aircraft and flow? People were saying that Envoy would be Comaired regardless of the vote, but it seems like American would be better off keeping their WO around.

We will still be shrinking because 97 aircraft are leaving. But we are losing a guaranteed 20 off the top from the flow which will increase to 30 when the 1st 175 shows up. It'll be stagnant for a year or 2, then pretty steady movement.

I paid $2200 last year to Alpa. That's about the most expensive utility bill I got. Next is electric. Then Hollywood. I mean cable...

In "soon future" there will be better benefits, increased bonuses and eventually 100% flow from Envoy to AA.

From the XJT/ASA thread. I agree 100%. Those higher paying, higher QOL regionals are pretty much toast in terms of getting better compensation as a result of this.

Inded, the three AA/US wholly owneds looked deep inside themselves, discovered they're a bunch of self serving fools, and not only screwed those of us trying to better the profession but also all to come. I never thought I'd be this petty but pilots from you three are no longer welcome on my flight deck. I hope a lot of my fellow 121 Captains really look at what just took place and draw their own conclusions and act accordingly. Have fun working with these shining examples of humanity who will soon be foisted upon you.

American Airlines Workers Get 4% Raises While Envoy Pilots Take Cuts - TheStreet

Why did your MEC allow this to go to a vote? ALPA has more blood on their hands than anyone here. They are spineless. A real MEC would have laughed in the faces of management and told them to come back when they had a real deal.

ALPA is to blame. If ALPA were a general and we were the troops, the general basically told each individual troop commander to do whatever works for them to survive their own battles instead of rallying the troops to win the war. ALPA is a weak pathetic poor excuse of a leader!

This wasn't the case a year ago when psa was voting. Now it's alpa's problem.

What do you mean? This has been ALPA's method for far too long. They are only willing to collect our dues and leave us fighting over the crumbs that are outsourced to us.

Will PSA pilots now be allowed to jump seat on ENY? I recall a lot of posturing in the past about refusing to let PSA use that privilege.

For those of us who are newbies and aren't familiar with what concession were imposed this time around on ENY pilots, and how bad this new contract is going to be, could anyone care to shed some light on what's going on? THANK YOU!

~ Starting Nov 2015 we'll receive 40 new E-175's w/90 options (total of 130 planes).

~ $12 000 retention bonus.

~ Flow through to AA for all Envoy pilots.

How is that a bad thing? What did you have to give up in order to get all of that?

They had to turn a respectable career into a McJob to stop the losses to other McRegional Airlines

For those of us who are new here and are clueless about the internal politics and the stuff that's going on, would anyone mind sharing what just happened at Envoy and why it's a turn for the worse? There's a ton of new people looking at these forums trying to figure out where to go and dont understand all the inside snide and lingo that goes on here....

Just want to clarify. They voted in a TA that has nothing, zip, nada but a guaranteed fleet size of 40 airframes?

Congrats!!!!!! You showed them!!!!


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Cliffs: envoy talked **** about PSA and PDT pilots for voting to save their jobs....envoy claims their jobs were not on the line and shouldnt have voted in concessions. Fast forward to yesterday and envoy voted in worse concessions that PSA and PDT...even worse than a deal envoy rejected a few months ago...all to save their jobs...yet they claim its PSA and PDT fault and refuse to take responsibility for anything.

At what point was PSA told to vote for their contract or be shut down? (Serious question.)

Every roadshow, they shoved it down our throat..thanks Jesse, enjoy mainline!

They were forced into this contract by the leverage given to management by psa and pdt. Had psa and pdt said no, along with expressjet and rah, the line would have been held and this latest yes vote would have never taken place. Psa started a chain of events that they are unwilling to acknoweldge.

Expressjet voted no, and they still got over 200 145s flying around. Republic voted no, and then they get a new contract for 50 175s for UAL, and then they get Miami...Envoy votes no, BAM, lose over 100 jets (still) in the next 24 to 30 months, BAM, closure of Miami. How many times did Envoy say NO to mgmt in the past year? How many Compass pilots were "watching" our last vote? This is a crappy deal, now even TSA has a better contract than Legacy Eagle (except for travel benefits, medical and 401K). Frozen per diem for 3 years so PSA and PDT can catch up. Don't even wanna think about how much vacation we have lost since 2011. But what else were we supposed to do, keep saying NO while watching TSA, Compass, Mesa, PSA grow exponentially? Parker and Glass won, I hope the boys and gals at AA hold their ground, Envoy tried but couldn't.

I'm sure ALPA will make sure they pattern bargain a great deal for mainline. They will continue to raise the bar for them while letting the Regionals eat each others young like cannibals. We should all have our dues refunded!

Gotta agree-I'm ashamed to be an Envoy pilot. regional pilot, hell, a pilot at all. No single engine taxi here! Won't be doing squat to help save so much as a penny.

Worse concessions that PSA and PDT. Are you kidding me???

-Our Per Diem increases over time, all the way up to $2.00 at year 10 of the contract.
-Better flow for everybody on property than PSA and PDT
-No interview to go to AA
-There's a minimum ammount of pilots to flow into AA per month, with increases over time with the delivery of the aircrafts.
- They cannot withhold until the end of the year like PSA.
- 5 flow per month to NH and probably more depending on the ammout of pilots on the list, while PSA have 4 positions a month only for everyone on the list.
PSA just got 30 airplanes and no options are part of the contract. We have 40 airplanes and 90 options.
-All envoy FOs currently on the list are grandfathered into 8yrs payscale
-Pilots on property still have furlough protection
- New hires will have 2400 above them that are going to flow faster
- $12,500 buyout to CA
-$7,500 buyout to FOs now and $5,000 when they upgrade or jan1,2017 (whichever occurs first).
-The deal is considerably better than the March one.

Get your fact straight. We now PSA is crying now because we got money and real flow, while they have to go to interview. Also the CRJ transfer will be slower if we can get enough staffing. They can activate as of now 56 of the options. They can activate more if they take 2 seats from PSA CR-700.

are you a captain? If its so bad quit then. I did and it was the best decision I have made.

Good Luck.

Oh please, I don't blame Envoy pilots for taking this awful contract, but don't frost your turd of a contract and sell it to me as a cupcake.

How long for a new hire to get dfw base? Where is the 175 going?
Thanks!

It seems as if though whoever voted yes both at PSA and Envoy at different times were forcefully put against the wall in order for them to continue to support their families. Not sure why there's such a war of words for impossible decisions. It does not appear that any of this was EVER going to be a win/win situation from the pilot's side.

I am just curious, those of you who say that the new Envoy contract is worse than what was originally offered to the pilots when they voted no, how is it much worse?

...and here's another point I wanted to make. I assume that nobody, or at least very few, are regional lifers....so, if this new agreement guarantees quicker flows to AA, doesn't that mean that pilots will get to reasonable salaries much quicker? Wouldn't you rather have average QOL for 2-3 years and then get on the mainline and start making $70-$80k than to be stuck as an FO at a regional for 8 years with no end in sight and no upgrade?

Isn't the bigger picture here to get to the mainline asap?

That's the big wish. Problem being, the flow through has never worked well. It's been a trickle often cut off.

But when have we ever been in a situation like this where mainline will truly need to hire a heck of a lot of pilots?? Remember the part where over the next 10 years, the majors will need as many new pilots as the regional workforce has now?

1996..........

AA's desire for pilots notwithstanding, Eaglevoy has always found some way to screw it up.

Those who do not know their history are doomed to repeat it.

I am going to sit back and watch the show. By third act (18 months from now) it should start to implode with major contract violations via interpetation by management

Well I guess now is a good time to voice my opinion. If you're coming to envoy or any regional with the idea of just hanging around for a few years then flowing to mainline think again. It's not going to happen. Try a few years for upgrade, followed by maybe the idea of flowing within 3/4 years of that.

Back to the contract, as an Envoy pilot while I believe this was a failure on a national level, the fact remains that 3 ALPA carriers should not have been able to of been whipsawed against each other for contracts. This was allowed to happen and ALPA has blood all over their hands for this god awful mess. I have never agreed with the statement PSA AND PIEDMONT put us here, I blame no one but ourselves. I blame all the UNIONS for failing to form a unified alliance saying we will not accept B scales and when we needed ALPA most, those scumbags at national were nowhere to be found.

I'm tired of hearing our union leader state live to fight for another day. When is this other day? When we go to mainline and these problems just magically go away? What about AA giving up scope and we get stuck here? The time to fight was now and this has been a failure beyond all proportions. I recommend no one involve themselves with regionals, at least until we get representation.

We got 40 planes now. So now the company is saved? Everything is all good now? Screw it. And by the way, I hope NAI gets what they want.

Quick edit* As an avid NO voter, Bahamas *******ing air can strike and we can't even help ourselves! What a disgrace.