ATTN: Envoy NYC based Pilots.
03-21-2015, 08:07 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 894
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
Upgrade at Eagle is almost 8 years and forecast to be 10-11.
I am amazed to see the management damae control on his thread.
I am amazed to see the management damae control on his thread.
Eagles upgrade is less than 8 years. I upgraded in about 7. Still bad? Yup. Not arguing that. Our junior CA is mid 07 right now.. The senior FO's right now are getting screwed. Things will take a little while to shake out and get that moving again. Can't really predict it. What are the Endeavor "downgrades" seniority right now? I honestly don't know anymore. Have they been moved back to the left seat yet??
I love how people just make up mythical Eagle upgrade forecasts. Who came up with that? You? Lol. There is no official projection on anything here right now and impossible to say for someone junior here. It's still completely up in the air what will happen here. We don't know how many 170's we will end up with. We don't know if all those aircraft projected to leave will actually do so in a short period of time. We don't know how fast that transfers will "actually" happen. They are already delayed on the CRJ transfers from the projected 3 down to about 1.5- 2 per month due to de-conformity taking a couple weeks each by MX and that could easily back up even more since it hasn't really even cranked up yet. (I just recently heard this from the fleet manager.) We don't know if we will get a retention bonus as well. It may be equal to or greater than Endeavors. It's being discussed. I would guess "possibly" but probably not until they get us to the size they want.. Who really knows? Definitely not the line pilots..
We don't know exactly what movement will be like with the flow here. It may continue on as projected or it could slow down again. Right now we are told we are losing 2 months of flow this year at 20/mo due to un-deferrals.. then it will increase to 30/mo around NOV with the first 170 on property. If that # keeps true we should flow approximately 180 more this year, and will flow 360/yr in 2016 and beyond.. plus outside hiring attrition and retirements of lifers creeping up on 65. Many of our Mid-junior CA's are also bailing for LCC's and majors now and that is increasing due to all the bad news here, not decreasing. We have a lot of highly qualified people here with tons of hours due to our longevity issues. Attrition to outside carriers from here when hiring really picks up will be sky-high.
As bad as things are here we still will have the highest attrition of CA's leaving per month in the industry, By far.. (*So long as AA is hiring). Look at the retirement #'s and decide for yourself if they will be hiring and flowing full classes over the next 5 years. I'd guess thats a yes.. There certainly could be some slow downs or hiccups over the next few years, But barring a major catastrophe we will still flow a LOT of people out of here rapidly. What other regional will be losing 360+ CA's per year? Likely over 400+ with outside attrition. A 10 year + upgrade in that case is history..
To be fair.. I can't say what Endeavor upgrades will be 5 years from now either. But they will be no better than ours without drastic changes to the plan over there. Or we could just Comair tomorrow as well. Who knows..
Last edited by RyanP; 03-21-2015 at 08:46 AM.
03-21-2015, 08:34 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 208
Originally Posted by PilotCrusader
Yeah heaven forbid FOs want to do as well as their counterparts and get out of the low pay doldrums. Those selfish FOs!!
For NY FOs(quoting Cujo) Why they should lose short notice OT ability, lose time commuting across the country, lose more money needing a crashpad.... when they can start at Endeavor as a new hire making more money than they do here, stay based close to home with the ability to run in and cherry pick OT to make ends meet, and not need a crashpad.
If you live in the northeast, which a large percentage of NY FOs do, then commuting is just stupid.
It's not about current upgrade time at Endeavor. It's about future. Endeavors shrink is pretty much over while envoy still has to slice in half, again. If I were one of them, I'd want to be at place done shrinking, making more money than they ever would as an FO here.....oh and not commuting halfway across he country on the very carriers that took your flying.
For NY FOs(quoting Cujo) Why they should lose short notice OT ability, lose time commuting across the country, lose more money needing a crashpad.... when they can start at Endeavor as a new hire making more money than they do here, stay based close to home with the ability to run in and cherry pick OT to make ends meet, and not need a crashpad.
If you live in the northeast, which a large percentage of NY FOs do, then commuting is just stupid.
It's not about current upgrade time at Endeavor. It's about future. Endeavors shrink is pretty much over while envoy still has to slice in half, again. If I were one of them, I'd want to be at place done shrinking, making more money than they ever would as an FO here.....oh and not commuting halfway across he country on the very carriers that took your flying.
03-21-2015, 10:36 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: CL65
Posts: 955
Originally Posted by RJ Pilot
I personally avoid Regionals overall when our company airline us. LCC's or mainline when possible.
03-21-2015, 10:44 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 806
Originally Posted by FaceBiter
Couple of dozen hours?? ELOHEL.
The people who will take the brunt are the passengers who will get hurt. A 76 seat jet in a 121 operation is not the place for a guy to "figure things out", especially next to a green Captain. Who, at some of these outfits, is a person otherwise unhireable elsewhere and has a junk training history.
The people who will take the brunt are the passengers who will get hurt. A 76 seat jet in a 121 operation is not the place for a guy to "figure things out", especially next to a green Captain. Who, at some of these outfits, is a person otherwise unhireable elsewhere and has a junk training history.
It goes both ways.
03-21-2015, 10:55 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2011
Position: 737 FO
Posts: 2,483
For the record, an engine failure in a small piston twin is way more dangerous than in an rj. They are mostly a non-event. Even the 200 will perform fine except for on the hottest days and up at some of the higher airports. They are about as close to centerline thrust as you can get.
03-21-2015, 11:18 AM
#38
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,137
Originally Posted by word302
For the record, an engine failure in a small piston twin is way more dangerous than in an rj. They are mostly a non-event. Even the 200 will perform fine except for on the hottest days and up at some of the higher airports. They are about as close to centerline thrust as you can get.
03-21-2015, 11:40 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2013
Posts: 806
Originally Posted by FaceBiter
There's not 76 victims in a Seminole. If you want to go kill yourself in a GA airplane knock yourself out. Passengers expect the pilots to actually be competent. Not just "figuring things out" as they go along.
03-21-2015, 11:54 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Posts: 310
Originally Posted by FaceBiter
There's not 76 victims in a Seminole. If you want to go kill yourself in a GA airplane knock yourself out. Passengers expect the pilots to actually be competent. Not just "figuring things out" as they go along.
I bet pax on anyone's first IOE trip wouldn't be happy if they knew the first time pilot X was going to takeoff and land that jet was with them in the back. But it happens. Every day.
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