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03-30-2016 | 08:26 AM

#2181

Jersdawg

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Joined: Jan 2014

Posts: 674

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Quote:

Originally Posted by highflyer1980

I understand that. But the guy is already a captain. So the grandfather clause, to me, wouldn't apply. Hence, 4 year pay.

I think he needs to pick up more OT. That may be the answer.

I'm not sure how it works, I would assume you're right and he goes back to 4th year pay. I took a quick peek at the contract and couldn't find anything. My post was referring more to the FOs who didn't want to upgrade.

03-30-2016 | 08:33 AM

#2182

V1Rotate95

Line Holder

Joined: Mar 2016

Posts: 38

Likes: 0

I need to get one thing straight, I understand everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone has different reasons when choosing a regional. But, to completely bash the flow makes no sense to me. Yes, in the past it has shown that it is not always the best way to land a mainline job, but it still is a guaranteed job. There's nothing stopping you from applying elsewhere when waiting on your number to flow. I'm not trying to sell the flow in saying that's the only reason why you should choose a regional, there are other obvious reasons as to why someone would go elsewhere. But, in my opinion every regional has their pros and cons, having a flow is something great to fall back on. So the flow doesn't work, you're still in the same situation as the guys at the other regionals without a flow, difference being you still have that upper hand with the potential that your number might eventually get called.

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03-30-2016 | 08:40 AM

#2183

RyanP

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Joined: Jul 2011

Posts: 894

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Quote:

Originally Posted by highflyer1980

I understand that. But the guy is already a captain. So the grandfather clause, to me, wouldn't apply. Hence, 4 year pay.

I think he needs to pick up more OT. That may be the answer.

The guy I just flew with (previously a CA) wasn't capped. He was topped out FO pay, but he downgraded on a displacement bid. I asked.

03-30-2016 | 09:16 AM

#2184

SkyWago

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Joined: May 2015

Posts: 206

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Quote:

Originally Posted by V1Rotate95

In theory you are right. At least our flow agreement does not prevent us from also appliying directly to AA like at least one other's does/did.

I think most B* about the flow cause they were told they were going to flow 10+ years ago and basically have been told it's right around the corner for a decade now. I can see how that would get aggravating. Only being at eny a few years and is it frustrating to still be on rsv? Of course. But living in base and making the best of the situation is all anyone can do at any airline. Major or regional.

03-30-2016 | 09:40 AM

#2185

boiler07

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Joined: Apr 2007

Posts: 490

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ag386

I know you've been there a long time PilotCrusader. You seem to have a handle on what's truly happening there. I'll post things of a similar nature and immediately get jumped on by these pro Envoy kids. I've left for a LCC. It just works for me and I happen to believe that as the pilot shortage increases, Envoy will find itself in a bind and now needing everyone they can get which effectively stops the flow. It seems you are on the same page.

Is the cheerleading you see here indicative of what you see on the line now? I just can't imagine buying into the company BS like the Envoy pack on here seems to.

I'm glad to see you having an honest conversation. The reason you got "jumped" was because not everyone shares your opinion, but you presented it as though it was a universal belief.

And to answer your question, it's not a matter of "buying company BS", but that most of us look at the flow with some skepticism. As you can remember, we've been through a lot. What seems to be clear now is that the trend is reversing. Some pilots on the line see that and that buys management a bit more leeway when they say they're going to honor it. So far they've made more of an effort than the old management team would have done in a lifetime. I still don't like them, but who actually likes their boss?

03-30-2016 | 09:51 AM

#2186

boiler07

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Joined: Apr 2007

Posts: 490

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Quote:

Originally Posted by PilotCrusader

The few non-management types that have posted on here are absolutely not representative of the pilot group at all. Some of them are well known self preservationists.
The pilot group as a whole is generally still disgruntled. The super senior guys could care less, but hate and distrust the company for what they have done. The guys soon to flow see the light at the end of the tunnel, but hate and distrust the company for what they have done. The average FO I fly with is looking for a way out rather than wait for the flow, and hates and distrusts the company for what they have done.

It's pretty much "I hate this place and will do as little as possible". You can see that mentality in the gate agents, the ground workers, and even middle management. Everyone does just enough not to get fired. The product has gone down the tubes.

But somehow we still dupe a few individuals every month into this amazing flow! I say dupe because no one discusses how long they will be crew scheduling a ***** in reserve, or how few days off per month they will be getting.

There is a difference between doing just enough not to get fired and doing just your job and nothing more. One would have to actively try to get fired, and would never come close just by doing the bare minimum.

As far as days off go, what you say sounds a lot like the common sentiment from commuters. And yes, we can go on and on about how there are so many commuters these days, but the fact is that living in base changes everything...even at Envoy. It's the same at most regionals.