Notices
Envoy Airlines Regional Airline

New Envoy Information

Old 11-19-2015, 07:39 AM
  #241  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Posts: 238
Default

Originally Posted by FlameNSky View Post
I hope you don't fly airplanes the way you calculate career progression.
It's likely I could never fly an airplane as good as you guys. Envoy pilots are superior in every way. Go ahead, hang out there at Envoy and wait for your number to be called. It might work as planned, then again, it might not. If it doesn't, I fully expect you to still be RAH-RAH Envoy.
emb145 is offline  
Old 11-19-2015, 08:16 AM
  #242  
Gets Weekends Off
 
FlameNSky's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 547
Default

Originally Posted by emb145 View Post
It's likely I could never fly an airplane as good as you guys. Envoy pilots are superior in every way. Go ahead, hang out there at Envoy and wait for your number to be called. It might work as planned, then again, it might not. If it doesn't, I fully expect you to still be RAH-RAH Envoy.
I can't remember, is this when I say, "I'm rubber and your glue." or should I just accuse you of having cooties? I'm sorry, it's been a while since I've been in a playground standoff with a child.
FlameNSky is offline  
Old 11-19-2015, 08:22 AM
  #243  
On Reserve
 
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Posts: 10
Default

Is there any useful information on this thread? It seems to be just name calling and bickering back and forth. It doesn't seem like anyone has any fact based information. You go from extremes of 2.5/6 yr to it's never going to happen and the company is going to fold. I realize it is naive of me to find some accurate information and a forum, but it would be nice.
Gozer is offline  
Old 11-19-2015, 09:34 AM
  #244  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 610
Default

Originally Posted by Gozer View Post
Is there any useful information on this thread? It seems to be just name calling and bickering back and forth. It doesn't seem like anyone has any fact based information. You go from extremes of 2.5/6 yr to it's never going to happen and the company is going to fold. I realize it is naive of me to find some accurate information and a forum, but it would be nice.
There's nothing to say, guys with 8-10 years and 8k-10k hours got hired all over the place last year. It's going down form there. That included a five year freeze from 07-12. The hireing will be more than ever before and the crowd with more than 10 years or 10,000 hours will be passed over for the same reason they've already been.

IF Envoy does have new hire today flow in 6 years it will likely be mostly due to what will be the new norm in 6 years, not some super special carve out for former Eagle guys.
There's more hireing in the next 6 years than the previous 15, so even a 15 year Envoy veteran cant tell you because he was a Cfi the last time hireing was like this.
Waitingformins is offline  
Old 11-19-2015, 10:32 AM
  #245  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Position: Feito no Brasil, CA
Posts: 833
Default

Originally Posted by Gozer View Post
Is there any useful information on this thread? It seems to be just name calling and bickering back and forth. It doesn't seem like anyone has any fact based information. You go from extremes of 2.5/6 yr to it's never going to happen and the company is going to fold. I realize it is naive of me to find some accurate information and a forum, but it would be nice.

It's the same as every other regional, with the exception that we seem to be more in flux at this time.

As of this moment:

Upgrades are slow and around 8 years. Projections are for it to drop significantly over the next few years. Will it drop to 2.5 years? Who the hell knows... That's all corporate propaganda at this time, but the upgrades will happen thanks to the flow and attrition.

Will ENY implode? No. If a situation arises that ENY is in dire trouble I have a feeling that the entire regional industry will be taking the same hit. We're not going anywhere.

Our shrinkage has slowed, rumors have it that there may actually be some extra re-capture of flying above and beyond what we've been expecting, but that's just a rumor. Like corporate propaganda, don't believe it until it happens.

Now that some of the other "OMG six weeks to captain!" regionals have slowed, IMO ENY is the place to get the foot in the door NOW. Not in a year or two when things really take off, then it's too late. IF they hire, flow and upgrade they way they predicted it's gonna be a nice ride for a few years.

There's plenty of haters on this board that love to hear themselves talk about the sky falling, but right now the things I've mentioned are in motion. While anything is possible and a giant meteor from outer space with space-suited terrorists and too-big-to-fail bankers riding it waving turbans and cowboy hats wanting to destroy both economy, our freedomz and planet by pile-driving into the Earth, life is full of risks. Make a choice, hope for the best and plan for the worst.

The one thing I will say is that our flow should not be a career making decision. Don't come here expecting to flow, always be looking for the next step up. One can certainly take advantage of the tangential effects of the flow while here, though - quick rise in seniority, hopefully approach an upgrade quickly and the associated benefits of better schedules with the rise in relative seniority.
AdiosMikeFox is offline  
Old 11-19-2015, 12:04 PM
  #246  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Cujo665's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Semi-Retired...
Posts: 3,110
Default

Originally Posted by HobGoblin View Post
824 Flow Through

x Upon delivery of the first EMB-175 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 30 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to Envoy pilots until a total of 824 Envoy pilots have flowed through to AA.

“Protected Pilots” Hired By Envoy On or Before October 11, 2011

x Upon delivery of the 40th EMB-175 50% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 25 per month (subject to the 50%), shall go to such Envoy pilots, until the next pilot to be offered a flow through opportunity was hired after October 11, 2011.

Pilots Hired By Envoy After October 11, 2011

x At the point in time when the first pilot hired after October 11, 2011 is offered a flow through opportunity, if AA is hiring pilots, 35% of all AA new hire training slots, no fewer than 15 per month (subject to the 35%), shall go to Envoy pilots.

Pilots Hired After DOS

x The lesser of (a) 25% of all AA new hire training slots in that calendar year, or (b) five new hire training slots (increased by one for every 125 pilots above the base number of 480 on the Envoy master seniority list) times (“x”) the number of calendar months in that calendar year in which AA actually hired pilots, shall go to Envoy pilots.
The lions share of the pilots were hired before 10-11-2011
Bankruptcy in 12-2011 with nobody on the list until 11-2012
And it's under roughly 200 since then.
It will go fast after they get through the 2011 hires. Even at 35% of each class there aren't a lot of guys in front of somebody getting hired now.

Kinda like getting hired at PSA just before they got more planes. A long upgrade went down to almost nothing.
Cujo665 is online now  
Old 11-19-2015, 12:23 PM
  #247  
Line Holder
 
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 46
Default

Originally Posted by Cujo665 View Post
The lions share of the pilots were hired before 10-11-2011
Bankruptcy in 12-2011 with nobody on the list until 11-2012
And it's under roughly 200 since then.
It will go fast after they get through the 2011 hires. Even at 35% of each class there aren't a lot of guys in front of somebody getting hired now.

Kinda like getting hired at PSA just before they got more planes. A long upgrade went down to almost nothing.
Exactly. That's what I've been saying all along. When they came up with these projections that show a 2.5 year upgrade and s 6 year flow, it wasn't just out of thin air. There's actually math behind it and a rational explanation of the numbers.

Couple that with the massive amount of retirements over the next decade and voila. There's your 2.5/6. I'm sure we would all like to turn back the clocks, but as I've said before. Unless somebody discovers the fountain of youth, it's a great time to be an Envoy pilot right now.
Envoy Envious is offline  
Old 11-19-2015, 04:10 PM
  #248  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 610
Default

Originally Posted by Cujo664 View Post
Exactly. That's what I've been saying all along. When they came up with these projections that show a 2.5 year upgrade and s 6 year flow, it wasn't just out of thin air. There's actually math behind it and a rational explanation of the numbers.

Couple that with the massive amount of retirements over the next decade and voila. There's your 2.5/6. I'm sure we would all like to turn back the clocks, but as I've said before. Unless somebody discovers the fountain of youth, it's a great time to be an Envoy pilot right now.
I think it's the "and voila" part that pilots question. The reality is that 2.5/6 would be for a small number of pilots after shrinkage and before re-growth. You have been claiming this window has been open for what will soon be a year. I am guessing for those few dozen pilots it's now 1.5/5 huh?
Waitingformins is offline  
Old 11-19-2015, 04:27 PM
  #249  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 439
Default

Originally Posted by Waitingformins View Post
I think it's the "and voila" part that pilots question. The reality is that 2.5/6 would be for a small number of pilots after shrinkage and before re-growth. You have been claiming this window has been open for what will soon be a year. I am guessing for those few dozen pilots it's now 1.5/5 huh?
Nobody is claiming "voila" as you say (except for Cujo664, but that's another story). The 2.5/6 came out less than 6 months ago, so I would hardly claim 1.5/5 anytime soon.

Question for you...In order for new applicants to trust the 2.5/6, do you want to wait another 2 years and re-visit the topic? Or do you want AAG to guarantee that said pilot will upgrade in 2.5 and be at AA in 6 years? Because that sort of guarantee is not gonna happen.

If you want to talk about reality, then the reality is envoy is done shrinking and likely getting back more flying. The reality is that 50% of classes at AA will be made up of envoy pilots for at least the next 5 years. The reality is that current attrition is not only from a very substantial amount of flows, but also normal attrition.

So...will 2.5/6 happen? I'm extremely confident it will, but won't guarantee it.
sublime259 is offline  
Old 11-19-2015, 06:14 PM
  #250  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 610
Default

Originally Posted by sublime259 View Post
Nobody is claiming "voila" as you say (except for Cujo664, but that's another story). The 2.5/6 came out less than 6 months ago, so I would hardly claim 1.5/5 anytime soon.

Question for you...In order for new applicants to trust the 2.5/6, do you want to wait another 2 years and re-visit the topic? Or do you want AAG to guarantee that said pilot will upgrade in 2.5 and be at AA in 6 years? Because that sort of guarantee is not gonna happen.

If you want to talk about reality, then the reality is envoy is done shrinking and likely getting back more flying. The reality is that 50% of classes at AA will be made up of envoy pilots for at least the next 5 years. The reality is that current attrition is not only from a very substantial amount of flows, but also normal attrition.

So...will 2.5/6 happen? I'm extremely confident it will, but won't guarantee it.
No, there aren't garentees, but putting that number in people's head is exactly how you get jaded FO's. I think the next 6 years will be far better than the previous 6 years.
I truely think that any young Cfi going to a jet regional that operates or has plans to operate a 50+ seat jet will have a stable furture for the next 6 years and won't see any real curve balls.
I think your company will be just fine, and will be just as good a choice as any other. The 2.5/6 is an aggressive marketing tool like the 1k pilots PSA needs. Cujo sounds like the washed up bum at a race track that just knows which horse to bet on even though his track record is terrable, and he's not going to place any bets himself.
Waitingformins is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
satpak77
Envoy Airlines
82
03-25-2020 05:55 AM
heading180
Regional
6098
08-18-2014 01:11 PM
bernoulli1129
Regional
1809
07-17-2014 12:05 PM
DFWEMB
Envoy Airlines
48
02-03-2014 09:52 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Your Privacy Choices