FlameNSky

I think there were not enough "crazy envoy salesman" so eaglefly had to create his own. Whoever Cujo664 is, he is clearly trying to disguise himself as Cujo665 so that nothing Ray says will be taken seriously.

In any case, the only argument eaglefly can make is there is "no guarantee". You can pick any subject in the world and make that claim. For thousands of people of around the world there is no guarantee they will be alive tomorrow night (accidents and whatnot).

I have been actively applying at the Big 3 for the last two years, having met or exceeded every competitive criteria with a perfect training history and I have yet to get a call for an interview. It would be one thing if I had interviewed and turned down but I am not even getting the chance. I know its a matter of time, there are thousands of applicants to get through, but I sleep much better at night knowing when my AA FT number comes up (which should be in about 12 months), if UA or DA haven't called, I'll be in class. That is a lot more of a guarantee than, "maybe today they will call." And if one of those company do call me to interview in 6 months, I will be a lot more relaxed knowing that even if they turn me down, I still have my number at AA.

We all have to choose our own course. We all have the responsibility to ourselves to choose that course and live with the consequences of those decisions. Personally, I think it would be foolish to base a career decision on the word of a faceless internet screenname. eaglefly, Cujo665, me or otherwise.

I endorse envoy because I believe it has a lot of value and that Parker is sincere in making it the fastest course to AA (because it saves him money). Parker will never stop the flow because that will only make his regional staffing worse. For that reason, I don't think envoy will ever pay as much as RAH's new contract either. I think they will eventually have to add some additional financial incentives, Parker will do whatever is necessary to staff his regional carriers but unlike Bedford, he is not limited by his CPA revenue stream. In an extreme case, I could see E175 and additional E190s at AA flown by former envoy pilots. As Parker himself has said, "We have no problem finding pilots for American." If that is what it takes to staff his jets, I could see him doing so. They already have the training programs, maintenance and ops specs in place. It would be an easy transition. A more expensive alternative to the low cost regional model but if the pilot market forces his hand, he will do it.

When I started Flight School, Comair, Eagle and AWA were the places to be. Now today, a former Colgan Lifer has the chance to go to Delta, former Value Jet pilots fly for Southwest and many Midwest pilots are asking themselves, "What the hell happened?!" There are definitely no guarantees in this profession but the contractual provision of envoy's Flow under Parker is a better guarantee than, "Maybe United will call today." And you can still pursue all the other opportunities that your regional pilot counterparts depend on as their only option to move on.

If someone chooses to listen the vague rants of eaglefly and daoldman, so be it. But that person will only have themselves to blame if in 6 years when they are saying to themselves, "Maybe Delta will call me today." And even if the flow did stop, that person would be in the same position they would be in if they went to RAH, SkyWest, TSA, waiting and hoping for that phone call.

DOGIII

So much wisdom from Sublime in this one that I think it's important to point out a few gems:

1. Apparently the larger carriers not only have the resources to differentiate the different applicants based on their company's collective pilot group votes of the past, but are even able to separate two candidates (PSA and Envoy for instance) who's pilot groups BOTH voted yes recently, because their hiring department should be capable of discerning the "honorable" yes vote of the two. Right...

2. PSA's quicker relative movement, upgrade, and check airman opportunities some how makes those pilots LESS qualified for positions in the big leagues. Ok...

3. This invisible "black mark" that only Sublime can see apparently does not affect prospective hiring in the LCC carriers, supposedly they are just letting "anyone" walk in these days, right?

sublime259

Very well said and my thoughts exactly.

FlameNSky

Have you ever heard of the Captain's Board? United always have one of their pilots present during the interview process.

Between 1995 and 2001 several Eagle pilots left for TWA without giving their 2 week notice... care to ask what happened to these pilots when AA acquired TWA?

I get your point. United has many 1989 Sc abs working today seemly unphased by their decision to cross the picket line. But this industry is smaller than you think. I am proud of my time at Eagle. I can hold my head high as I tell people how I repeatedly voted no to Parkers threats while PSA's MEC formally stated, "If Eagle says no, we'll do it." You will probably get a mainline job one day. In fact, you will probably be the first one to jump up and yell Sc ab at someone when they do to you what your union did to the Eagle pilots. Justify it however you wish but when you are an old man, in the quiet spaces of your own thoughts, you will always know who and what you really are.

C12mem

It's funny you think being at PSA is a black mark. You do realize that no one cares outside of you and a few others. You act like envoy is a higher tier pilot group. If you are so much better why are you still there? Why aren't delta and united beating down your door to get an envoy pilot on their books? my guess would be PSA is just a thing to be mad at for your dream of being a pilot not living up to all you thought it would be. Let me guess you saw Top Gun and decided to be a pilot. You probably went to Riddle because they fed you that they made the best pilots. You get to the regionals after that and wonder why there are all these other guys that went to small FBOs and don't have $200,000 in debt are in the same class as you. What ever, you're the best at the best regional. You are living the dream. I mean your regional has a similar name as American. You got in at a bad time so ya you have been sitting reserve as an FO for a long time but so is every one else so who cares. Fast foward and you're still an FO after 5-7 years. Once again it's just the way it is there is no hiring and so no one is moving but you're at American Eagle and when the pilot crisis hits every major will want you. Now today you're probably still an FO or just became a CA waiting on your number to be called at American because no other place has called you and that is still a few years away. Let me guess I'm pretty spot on am I right? That sucks that the industry was the way it was and its been rough for so many pilots but let me tell you this whole blaming your bad situation on PSA won't change how your career has gone. You need to except you are not special you are not better than any one else. If any thing your holding yourself back by blaming others for your unfortunate career. Get over yourself buddy you're just another regional pilot at just another regional. Once you get off your high horse the view will be much better I promise.

sublime259

It's accept. Sorry, I'm a know-it-all Riddle guy who just had to correct you because I'm always right.

PDTpilotXX

I know 5 PSA pilots that have been hired at Delta and United in the last 2 months. Sublimes short man syndrome is raging. Or he's just constantly on the rag. Or both. Just like eagle fly, most just ignore him.

AMC190

What about PDT pilots?

emb145

Well, if it's coming from Envoy pilots. You suck.

They are the greatest. Always have been. Always will be.

C12mem

Sad I can tell you that much about you by your personality. Let me guess you have some excuse why you didn't become a top gun fighter pilot too. Probably thinning hair mid thirties either divorced or not married. A CRJ 700 pilot for envoy too. That would make it worse I'm sure. Tell me when I get the picture of this super pilot wrong.