New Envoy Information
11-20-2015, 10:08 AM
#271
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Posts: 3,205
Originally Posted by daOldMan
How many "promises" has American failed to live up to in regards to your airline? If the answer is one or more, then your argument is invalid.
Now, why do you think they didn't gave more flow to PSA? Because they are tied with the envoy flow until the Protected pilots are gone. Then I could see AA merging regionals when the supply of pilots will be less. (In about 5 yrs)
11-20-2015, 10:21 AM
#272
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: ERJ 145
Posts: 59
Originally Posted by Cujo665
last I checked
PDT was 3 and PSA is now 5
Even at 35%, it's 17-18 at Envoy
hiring 750. up to 150 recalls = 600
600/12=50
50 x 35%=17-18 a month
That is what you call about the same?
PDT was 3 and PSA is now 5
Even at 35%, it's 17-18 at Envoy
hiring 750. up to 150 recalls = 600
600/12=50
50 x 35%=17-18 a month
That is what you call about the same?
11-20-2015, 10:25 AM
#273
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2014
Posts: 787
Originally Posted by daOldMan
How many "promises" has American failed to live up to in regards to your airline? If the answer is one or more, then your argument is invalid.
If you are living in the past and referring to AMR, well then that is your problem. And you need to check your facts. The flow does not decrease to 35% after the 824. It remains at 50% through the PP group once the 40th E175 arrives. The arrival of the 40th E175 and the first PP flow should coincide around the same time.
After the PP group the number of pilots on property is relatively small...meaning the time to flow for an individual person will still be the same if not quicker.
But keep trying to play the "what if" game. You are doing a great job at it.
I'll help you out:
If a meteor strikes the earth tomorrow and wipes out civilization, AA probably won't honor the flow.
Is that a good enough one for you?
11-20-2015, 10:30 AM
#274
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by FlameNSky
You might want to run those numbers again. The 5, 6, 7 or 8 guys a month that flow from PSA is nothing compared to the 50% a month that envoy is flowing at 15, 20, 25 or 30 a month. Maybe you guys shouldn't have given up more concessions for a better flow.
Your right though, envoy is currently at 40% reserve covering the short falls for all the lowest cost bidders. Since those carriers cannot staff those flights, that flying is coming back to envoy. Sure seems like a lot of RAH and PSA pilots here doing their best to steer as many as they can away for envoy. What are you guys so afraid of?
Your right though, envoy is currently at 40% reserve covering the short falls for all the lowest cost bidders. Since those carriers cannot staff those flights, that flying is coming back to envoy. Sure seems like a lot of RAH and PSA pilots here doing their best to steer as many as they can away for envoy. What are you guys so afraid of?
11-20-2015, 10:37 AM
#275
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by eaglefly
Should pilots come to Envoy based on what YOU expect to happen ?
They'd have to be colossal saps to do something like that. BTW, I recall that exact phrase about the "fountain of youth" on EL, but from Mason, not you. Perhaps you two ARE the same ? After all, doesn't Mason has a history of multiple personalities ?
Once again, it must be emphasized that the number of pilots who retire at AA does not necessarily equal the number of new pilots needed and thus a specific direct impact on future flows. I know it gives a warm and fuzzy to those cold and frazzled though.
I read on EL that the company is planning 205 upgrades for 2016 (not yet awarded) as per RW on 11/4. How many F/O's are there at Envoy, 1000 ?
That means Envoy will have to upgrade 800 in the following 1.5 years from January 2017 to mid 2018 to meet the 2.5 year upgrade for an Envoy new-hire of today. That math doesn't add up to me, but then again, I don't work for CLR or drink Envoy Kool-Aid like a famished water buffalo.
Also, one MEC rep said no flows to AA for December and he'd be surprised if more then 20 go in January. That sounds like a very tepid start to the Envotopian conga line you and others are trumpeting here.
Caveat Emptor.
They'd have to be colossal saps to do something like that. BTW, I recall that exact phrase about the "fountain of youth" on EL, but from Mason, not you. Perhaps you two ARE the same ? After all, doesn't Mason has a history of multiple personalities ?
Once again, it must be emphasized that the number of pilots who retire at AA does not necessarily equal the number of new pilots needed and thus a specific direct impact on future flows. I know it gives a warm and fuzzy to those cold and frazzled though.
I read on EL that the company is planning 205 upgrades for 2016 (not yet awarded) as per RW on 11/4. How many F/O's are there at Envoy, 1000 ?
That means Envoy will have to upgrade 800 in the following 1.5 years from January 2017 to mid 2018 to meet the 2.5 year upgrade for an Envoy new-hire of today. That math doesn't add up to me, but then again, I don't work for CLR or drink Envoy Kool-Aid like a famished water buffalo.
Also, one MEC rep said no flows to AA for December and he'd be surprised if more then 20 go in January. That sounds like a very tepid start to the Envotopian conga line you and others are trumpeting here.Caveat Emptor.
The fact is AAG management has done exactly as they said they would. They are living up to their promises and that equals a bright future for Envoy pilots. Or should I say, AA pilots. Because in reality, that's what we already are.
Some on here have made it their life mission to tear down Envoy. I think it's jealousy. Why? Because Gojet, RAH, TransStates to name a few do not have the CAREER PROGRESSION an Envoy pilot has. That's something you wouldn't understand. It's like arguing with a child.
11-20-2015, 10:41 AM
#276
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by daOldMan
How many "promises" has American failed to live up to in regards to your airline? If the answer is one or more, then your argument is invalid.
11-20-2015, 11:19 AM
#277
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Cujo664
You just don't get it. I've explained this over and over. The math works. Yes, 205 upgrades next year and that puts us right in line with the 2.5 year upgrade OR less. Did you get that? Maybe LESS than 2.5. I think management was trying to be realistic with the 2.5 but quite frankly the numbers show it to be less than 2.5. Dare I say 2/4? It's certainly WELL within the realm of possibility.
Originally Posted by Cujo664
The fact is AAG management has done exactly as they said they would. They are living up to their promises and that equals a bright future for Envoy pilots. Or should I say, AA pilots. Because in reality, that's what we already are.
Some on here have made it their life mission to tear down Envoy. I think it's jealousy. Why? Because Gojet, RAH, TransStates to name a few do not have the CAREER PROGRESSION an Envoy pilot has. That's something you wouldn't understand. It's like arguing with a child.
Some on here have made it their life mission to tear down Envoy. I think it's jealousy. Why? Because Gojet, RAH, TransStates to name a few do not have the CAREER PROGRESSION an Envoy pilot has. That's something you wouldn't understand. It's like arguing with a child.
Keep selling hard as you wish, but I don't think the Envoy CJC is reeling in to many suckers with their song and dance act. Perhaps if you added a parrot ?
11-20-2015, 11:25 AM
#278
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
Originally Posted by Cujo664
AAG has kept every promise they have made since Day One. They are doing exactly as they said they would. Our flow percentages blow away the other wholly owned. It's a great time to be an Envoy pilot.
Envoy is serving its purpose as pinch-hitters right now, because you have the assets right now. You shouldn't let that go to your head, but I see it's obviously too late. Your management can make any agreements it wants to with you, but the long-term plan is over their pay grades (way over) and they are just trying to stack the deck in their favor for the future. You're just the pawns they are using to woo Parker.
11-20-2015, 11:31 AM
#279
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Qualified to carry liquids through security.
Posts: 771
Originally Posted by daOldMan
More or less, AAG is giving up more than 100% of their new hire classes to WO'd flows. There is no way that this will work. I'll keep it simple for you...you can't have more than 100%.
If you think that Envoy will go above 35% once the 824 are gone, you are sadly mistaken. Envoy will be slightly larger than PDT, but smaller than PSA at that point. AAG will have what they want - 3 WO'd that are all about the same size, and will be able to play them against each other. The hostile attitudes that Envoy has against the others is exactly what AAG wants. You guys are cheerleading for a company that is playing you. Seriously. Wake up.
If you think that Envoy will go above 35% once the 824 are gone, you are sadly mistaken. Envoy will be slightly larger than PDT, but smaller than PSA at that point. AAG will have what they want - 3 WO'd that are all about the same size, and will be able to play them against each other. The hostile attitudes that Envoy has against the others is exactly what AAG wants. You guys are cheerleading for a company that is playing you. Seriously. Wake up.
11-20-2015, 11:40 AM
#280
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: Emb 170/175 FO
Posts: 272
Originally Posted by Cujo664
Or should I say, AA pilots. Because in reality, that's what we already are.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
