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06-11-2022, 04:30 PM

#6871

pitchattitude

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2017

Posts: 2,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustAsking

So how long does the 5 year flow thing last? It says anyone who wanted to flow but hadn't within 5 years gets moved to the 20 year CA pay rate, but is that also only short term (2 years) or all the way through 2029?

The way I understand it, the entire CBA, plus amendments is extended until 2029. There are new pay rates that are listed. Year five captain is $107.50 with a $2.50/ year increase both for year over year and each extra year of service so about a $5 increase each year.

FOs start at $60 with basically a $7 increase when combine year over year and next step.

The big premium is the 50% for for the next two years.

The other big one is if you get to captain and finish your fifth year with it flowing you go to 20 year pay scale. Which for the next two years is at least $214. That rate will snap back Aug 2024 to $147.50.

The big money is being an LCA. AAG finally decided they needed to keep those folks to keep the airline afloat when things cools down. And they will.

06-11-2022, 04:38 PM

#6872

Kudzu

On Reserve

Joined APC: Jul 2015

Posts: 13

Quote:

Originally Posted by dera

The thing to remember is 20 year CA after 2 years is only 147/hr. Much better off at an ULCC.

Dera is correct...... but only if your lifetime goal is a ULCC.
If your goal is a Legacy. ENVOY now is the best option in the industry.

06-11-2022, 05:41 PM

#6873

dera

In a land of unicorns

Joined APC: Apr 2014

Position: Whale FO

Posts: 6,219

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kudzu

Dera is correct...... but only if your lifetime goal is a ULCC.
If your goal is a Legacy. ENVOY now is the best option in the industry.

Which legacy? AA? No. Any other legacy, yes that could be true.

No-one starting today will benefit from waiting for the flow.

06-11-2022, 08:04 PM

#6874

pitchattitude

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2017

Posts: 2,503

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kudzu

Dera is correct...... but only if your lifetime goal is a ULCC.
If your goal is a Legacy. ENVOY now is the best option in the industry.

This still only a good deal of you are within two years of flow. When those numbers snap back you’ll be left holding the bag. And you still have lost seniority elsewhere.

This just improves the lot for those who planned to go to AA anyway to not try and jump the flow, or if AA was a strong option, but not a MUST.

May keep a few more as lifers if they want to do training or just not want to start over. Basically those 55 plus-ish.

Bottom line is if something else works better for you in the long run, you’re still going to do it.

06-12-2022, 05:48 AM

#6875

shortspatula

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Jan 2022

Posts: 156

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kudzu

Dera is correct...... but only if your lifetime goal is a ULCC.
If your goal is a Legacy. ENVOY now is the best option in the industry.

Good stuff you’re smoking there. This doesn’t benefit anyone unless they’re about to leave for a major or about to flow. Still, you make more at any major, certainly after 2 years. Not to mention, its not a regional. After 2 years you’ll be back to low pay. At the majors you’d be pretty senior or upgrading at that point. Unless you are really set on flowing, you’d be crazy to give up on 2 years seniority at the majors to stick around at a regional.

06-12-2022, 06:58 AM

#6876

buddies8

Gets Weekends Off

Joined APC: Aug 2005

Posts: 3,707

Shortspatula is correct. Seniority is everything in this industry. Make sure you chose correctly.

06-12-2022, 09:04 AM

#6877

JustAsking

Line Holder

Joined APC: Apr 2019

Posts: 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by dera

Which legacy? AA? No. Any other legacy, yes that could be true. No-one starting today will benefit from waiting for the flow.

So I heard/keep hearing that the goal is to keep regional Captains long enough to take a new hire from FO to CA, which they estimate to be 2-3 years. If they can keep a Captain for 2 years, give them a flow date 6 months out, they system sustains itself. Add that to the 5 flow year language in the CBA extension, and it theoretically makes sense. Does anyone think that 5 years will be a real, accurate number? For example, a 3 yr FO upgrading this year, will actually flow in 2 years (his 5th)..... or do you think that at year 5 everyone will be disappointed at the lack of flow and then end up at Delta/United/Fedex?