Pay increases at Envoy
09-20-2016 | 05:17 PM
#391
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2016
Posts: 793
Likes: 0
From: FO
Instant grarification generation i sware! 😉...
Reminds me of story i heard a Capt at UPS tell me how he was an FO for 18yrs before he upgraded to Capt. Talk about stagnation! Its due to a period of massive hiring and then no hiring.
Another prior military transport guy who was an FO at UPS told me about his decison not to get on with FEDEX because he saw stagnation, but went with UPS for less pay, but soon after FEDEX had movement and UPS became stagnent....
Good luck to that guy who made that comment abt no thanks at Envoy and that higher pay & bonus means nothing due to over 1yr resv time. 😂😅😂😂.
Understand what the majors might be looking for in 5-8yrs will not be the same as what they are looking for now.
i.e. AA & others in the 1980's/1990 snatched up mostly only Military, once that dried up, the flood grates opened until economic down turn/accidents/BK/consolidations / surplus of pilots from Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, ect., Don't you see how many military pilots have to get with a Regional first to fly with the big 3 pax major?
There was a time Delta was the worst, and AA the best. FEDEX the worst, UPS the best. British Airways had its glory days as did Air France once.
Ebbs and flows... timing is KEY yall. Be smart & research the past get a clue. Airline business models has changed, but its still an Airline, certain supply & demand principles do not.🤔 Make decisions not on emotion. Where do u want to be in 6-10yrs? Where will retirement numbers work out best for you? Don't just chase a jet, chase job security and opportunity for the LONG TERM. Its not TPIC.... notice what happened / is happening to the covet 4yr degree requirement they ALL had 3yrs ago. I am not advocating that it does not matter, i am not saying you don't need TPIC or a 4-yr degree. You need to be competitive, get them. Seek more qualifications beyond the minimum. Get a masters and PHD if you want. Hope it helps you in 5-10yrs. I know i'll be seeking a masters for personal reasons and personal goals and achievements.
Just MHO.
Reminds me of story i heard a Capt at UPS tell me how he was an FO for 18yrs before he upgraded to Capt. Talk about stagnation! Its due to a period of massive hiring and then no hiring.
Another prior military transport guy who was an FO at UPS told me about his decison not to get on with FEDEX because he saw stagnation, but went with UPS for less pay, but soon after FEDEX had movement and UPS became stagnent....
Good luck to that guy who made that comment abt no thanks at Envoy and that higher pay & bonus means nothing due to over 1yr resv time. 😂😅😂😂.
Understand what the majors might be looking for in 5-8yrs will not be the same as what they are looking for now.
i.e. AA & others in the 1980's/1990 snatched up mostly only Military, once that dried up, the flood grates opened until economic down turn/accidents/BK/consolidations / surplus of pilots from Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, ect., Don't you see how many military pilots have to get with a Regional first to fly with the big 3 pax major?
There was a time Delta was the worst, and AA the best. FEDEX the worst, UPS the best. British Airways had its glory days as did Air France once.
Ebbs and flows... timing is KEY yall. Be smart & research the past get a clue. Airline business models has changed, but its still an Airline, certain supply & demand principles do not.🤔 Make decisions not on emotion. Where do u want to be in 6-10yrs? Where will retirement numbers work out best for you? Don't just chase a jet, chase job security and opportunity for the LONG TERM. Its not TPIC.... notice what happened / is happening to the covet 4yr degree requirement they ALL had 3yrs ago. I am not advocating that it does not matter, i am not saying you don't need TPIC or a 4-yr degree. You need to be competitive, get them. Seek more qualifications beyond the minimum. Get a masters and PHD if you want. Hope it helps you in 5-10yrs. I know i'll be seeking a masters for personal reasons and personal goals and achievements.
Just MHO.
Last edited by SilentLurker; 09-20-2016 at 05:59 PM.
09-20-2016 | 06:32 PM
#392
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 490
Likes: 0
Instant grarification generation i sware! 😉...
Reminds me of story i heard a Capt at UPS tell me how he was an FO for 18yrs before he upgraded to Capt. Talk about stagnation! Its due to a period of massive hiring and then no hiring.
Another prior military transport guy who was an FO at UPS told me about his decison not to get on with FEDEX because he saw stagnation, but went with UPS for less pay, but soon after FEDEX had movement and UPS became stagnent....
Good luck to that guy who made that comment abt no thanks at Envoy and that higher pay & bonus means nothing due to over 1yr resv time. 😂😅😂😂.
Understand what the majors might be looking for in 5-8yrs will not be the same as what they are looking for now.
i.e. AA & others in the 1980's/1990 snatched up mostly only Military, once that dried up, the flood grates opened until economic down turn/accidents/BK/consolidations / surplus of pilots from Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, ect., Don't you see how many military pilots have to get with a Regional first to fly with the big 3 pax major?
There was a time Delta was the worst, and AA the best. FEDEX the worst, UPS the best. British Airways had its glory days as did Air France once.
Ebbs and flows... timing is KEY yall. Be smart & research the past get a clue. Airline business models has changed, but its still an Airline, certain supply & demand principles do not.🤔 Make decisions not on emotion. Where do u want to be in 6-10yrs? Where will retirement numbers work out best for you? Don't just chase a jet, chase job security and opportunity for the LONG TERM. Its not TPIC.... notice what happened / is happening to the covet 4yr degree requirement they ALL had 3yrs ago. I am not advocating that it does not matter, i am not saying you don't need TPIC or a 4-yr degree. You need to be competitive, get them. Seek more qualifications beyond the minimum. Get a masters and PHD if you want. Hope it helps you in 5-10yrs. I know i'll be seeking a masters for personal reasons and personal goals and achievements.
Just MHO.
Reminds me of story i heard a Capt at UPS tell me how he was an FO for 18yrs before he upgraded to Capt. Talk about stagnation! Its due to a period of massive hiring and then no hiring.
Another prior military transport guy who was an FO at UPS told me about his decison not to get on with FEDEX because he saw stagnation, but went with UPS for less pay, but soon after FEDEX had movement and UPS became stagnent....
Good luck to that guy who made that comment abt no thanks at Envoy and that higher pay & bonus means nothing due to over 1yr resv time. 😂😅😂😂.
Understand what the majors might be looking for in 5-8yrs will not be the same as what they are looking for now.
i.e. AA & others in the 1980's/1990 snatched up mostly only Military, once that dried up, the flood grates opened until economic down turn/accidents/BK/consolidations / surplus of pilots from Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, ect., Don't you see how many military pilots have to get with a Regional first to fly with the big 3 pax major?
There was a time Delta was the worst, and AA the best. FEDEX the worst, UPS the best. British Airways had its glory days as did Air France once.
Ebbs and flows... timing is KEY yall. Be smart & research the past get a clue. Airline business models has changed, but its still an Airline, certain supply & demand principles do not.🤔 Make decisions not on emotion. Where do u want to be in 6-10yrs? Where will retirement numbers work out best for you? Don't just chase a jet, chase job security and opportunity for the LONG TERM. Its not TPIC.... notice what happened / is happening to the covet 4yr degree requirement they ALL had 3yrs ago. I am not advocating that it does not matter, i am not saying you don't need TPIC or a 4-yr degree. You need to be competitive, get them. Seek more qualifications beyond the minimum. Get a masters and PHD if you want. Hope it helps you in 5-10yrs. I know i'll be seeking a masters for personal reasons and personal goals and achievements.
Just MHO.
09-20-2016 | 07:38 PM
#393
Banned
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 388
Likes: 0
Anybody listen to the conference call tonight? A couple of highlights that stuck out to me:
The company wants to upgrade more Captains at an accelerated rate..more than we even need. This front loading is due to anticipated Captain movement..which leads to the next point:
They confirmed that AA has indeed asked Envoy to flow 40/ month next year.
Our application and recruitment numbers have spiked since the pay raises. Get in now, folks. The flood gates are opening.
There was also some troubling news about PSA..but I won't repeat it. I don't want to start that argument around here.
Going back to the accelerated Captain upgrade thing...this will drop upgrade times like a rock. We are about to hit 2011 hires with the next bid. They should all upgrade by the end of 2017 if not sooner. Below them are very, very few pilots. We're talking double digits for all of 2012 and not much more for 2013. Meaning that new hires now wouldn't be too far from upgrading after next year.
This, and the flow announcement jive with the numbers: 2/2.5 years to upgrade and 5 to flow. Bring it, haters.
The company wants to upgrade more Captains at an accelerated rate..more than we even need. This front loading is due to anticipated Captain movement..which leads to the next point:
They confirmed that AA has indeed asked Envoy to flow 40/ month next year.
Our application and recruitment numbers have spiked since the pay raises. Get in now, folks. The flood gates are opening.
There was also some troubling news about PSA..but I won't repeat it. I don't want to start that argument around here.
Going back to the accelerated Captain upgrade thing...this will drop upgrade times like a rock. We are about to hit 2011 hires with the next bid. They should all upgrade by the end of 2017 if not sooner. Below them are very, very few pilots. We're talking double digits for all of 2012 and not much more for 2013. Meaning that new hires now wouldn't be too far from upgrading after next year.
This, and the flow announcement jive with the numbers: 2/2.5 years to upgrade and 5 to flow. Bring it, haters.
09-20-2016 | 08:14 PM
#394
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2015
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
From: Leaning Right, Left, Right
Required Reading
Instant grarification generation i sware! 😉...
Reminds me of story i heard a Capt at UPS tell me how he was an FO for 18yrs before he upgraded to Capt. Talk about stagnation! Its due to a period of massive hiring and then no hiring.
Another prior military transport guy who was an FO at UPS told me about his decison not to get on with FEDEX because he saw stagnation, but went with UPS for less pay, but soon after FEDEX had movement and UPS became stagnent....
Good luck to that guy who made that comment abt no thanks at Envoy and that higher pay & bonus means nothing due to over 1yr resv time. 😂😅😂😂.
Understand what the majors might be looking for in 5-8yrs will not be the same as what they are looking for now.
i.e. AA & others in the 1980's/1990 snatched up mostly only Military, once that dried up, the flood grates opened until economic down turn/accidents/BK/consolidations / surplus of pilots from Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, ect., Don't you see how many military pilots have to get with a Regional first to fly with the big 3 pax major?
There was a time Delta was the worst, and AA the best. FEDEX the worst, UPS the best. British Airways had its glory days as did Air France once.
Ebbs and flows... timing is KEY yall. Be smart & research the past get a clue. Airline business models has changed, but its still an Airline, certain supply & demand principles do not.🤔 Make decisions not on emotion. Where do u want to be in 6-10yrs? Where will retirement numbers work out best for you? Don't just chase a jet, chase job security and opportunity for the LONG TERM. Its not TPIC.... notice what happened / is happening to the covet 4yr degree requirement they ALL had 3yrs ago. I am not advocating that it does not matter, i am not saying you don't need TPIC or a 4-yr degree. You need to be competitive, get them. Seek more qualifications beyond the minimum. Get a masters and PHD if you want. Hope it helps you in 5-10yrs. I know i'll be seeking a masters for personal reasons and personal goals and achievements.
Just MHO.
Reminds me of story i heard a Capt at UPS tell me how he was an FO for 18yrs before he upgraded to Capt. Talk about stagnation! Its due to a period of massive hiring and then no hiring.
Another prior military transport guy who was an FO at UPS told me about his decison not to get on with FEDEX because he saw stagnation, but went with UPS for less pay, but soon after FEDEX had movement and UPS became stagnent....
Good luck to that guy who made that comment abt no thanks at Envoy and that higher pay & bonus means nothing due to over 1yr resv time. 😂😅😂😂.
Understand what the majors might be looking for in 5-8yrs will not be the same as what they are looking for now.
i.e. AA & others in the 1980's/1990 snatched up mostly only Military, once that dried up, the flood grates opened until economic down turn/accidents/BK/consolidations / surplus of pilots from Eastern, Pan Am, TWA, ect., Don't you see how many military pilots have to get with a Regional first to fly with the big 3 pax major?
There was a time Delta was the worst, and AA the best. FEDEX the worst, UPS the best. British Airways had its glory days as did Air France once.
Ebbs and flows... timing is KEY yall. Be smart & research the past get a clue. Airline business models has changed, but its still an Airline, certain supply & demand principles do not.🤔 Make decisions not on emotion. Where do u want to be in 6-10yrs? Where will retirement numbers work out best for you? Don't just chase a jet, chase job security and opportunity for the LONG TERM. Its not TPIC.... notice what happened / is happening to the covet 4yr degree requirement they ALL had 3yrs ago. I am not advocating that it does not matter, i am not saying you don't need TPIC or a 4-yr degree. You need to be competitive, get them. Seek more qualifications beyond the minimum. Get a masters and PHD if you want. Hope it helps you in 5-10yrs. I know i'll be seeking a masters for personal reasons and personal goals and achievements.
Just MHO.
09-21-2016 | 04:10 AM
#396
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
Anybody listen to the conference call tonight? A couple of highlights that stuck out to me:
The company wants to upgrade more Captains at an accelerated rate..more than we even need. This front loading is due to anticipated Captain movement..which leads to the next point:
They confirmed that AA has indeed asked Envoy to flow 40/ month next year.
Our application and recruitment numbers have spiked since the pay raises. Get in now, folks. The flood gates are opening.
There was also some troubling news about PSA..but I won't repeat it. I don't want to start that argument around here.
Going back to the accelerated Captain upgrade thing...this will drop upgrade times like a rock. We are about to hit 2011 hires with the next bid. They should all upgrade by the end of 2017 if not sooner. Below them are very, very few pilots. We're talking double digits for all of 2012 and not much more for 2013. Meaning that new hires now wouldn't be too far from upgrading after next year.
This, and the flow announcement jive with the numbers: 2/2.5 years to upgrade and 5 to flow. Bring it, haters.
The company wants to upgrade more Captains at an accelerated rate..more than we even need. This front loading is due to anticipated Captain movement..which leads to the next point:
They confirmed that AA has indeed asked Envoy to flow 40/ month next year.
Our application and recruitment numbers have spiked since the pay raises. Get in now, folks. The flood gates are opening.
There was also some troubling news about PSA..but I won't repeat it. I don't want to start that argument around here.
Going back to the accelerated Captain upgrade thing...this will drop upgrade times like a rock. We are about to hit 2011 hires with the next bid. They should all upgrade by the end of 2017 if not sooner. Below them are very, very few pilots. We're talking double digits for all of 2012 and not much more for 2013. Meaning that new hires now wouldn't be too far from upgrading after next year.
This, and the flow announcement jive with the numbers: 2/2.5 years to upgrade and 5 to flow. Bring it, haters.
09-21-2016 | 04:33 AM
#398
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Could've been a bigger win if they actually tried negotiating instead of jumping at the first crumbs AAG threw their way. At least, that's the jist of the information we received.
09-21-2016 | 05:16 AM
#399
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,601
Likes: 0
From: CRJ FO
They did negotiate. They got increased bonuses for our CAs. I guess they felt every other part of the deal was good or at least palatable to the few it wasn't good to for the greater good of the pilot group.
09-21-2016 | 09:44 AM
#400
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
From: EMB145 CA
Heard they jumped for the bullet points before getting any real language. PSA had a knee jerk reaction and came up shorter than the other two carriers. The 3 MEC's tried to raise the bar together and the PSA jumped the gun resulting in lost potential gains for all 3
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