Envoy or PSA
11-14-2016 | 06:09 PM
#21
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Why wouldn't you interview at both. Get a feel for the airlines through the interview process, they should be selling you on them just as much as you are trying to sell them on you. If you get an offer from both, then you have a decision to make. I'm interested to see how it turns out and what you decide. Best wishes.
11-14-2016 | 06:30 PM
#22
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Joined: Oct 2016
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Agree that it is cyclical. PSA's star was on the rise a year ago, now it is Piedmont's turn. Soon, it will be someone else. (Although I don't beli e AAG will let any of the WOs fail at this point.) My point is, ask questions. Ask if you'll take a pay cut in year two. Ask to see the hire date of the most junior captain. Ask to see the math on the flow. The WOs are a great choice, but do your homework.
11-15-2016 | 04:13 AM
#23
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Alright I'll give it a shot... reserve is dropping like a rock in the next couple of months. Upgrading 30 per month on average. Flowing 30 per month. Upgrade times are dropping very vast as well. If the current hiring and attrition continues the upgrades will be around two years. This is coming from a guy on reserve for two years.
This place has its faults and I'm not going to paint a rosy picture of what management and scheduling do when they are in a pinch.
Good luck where ever you go.
This place has its faults and I'm not going to paint a rosy picture of what management and scheduling do when they are in a pinch.
Good luck where ever you go.
Upgrade time dropping like a rock. Likely 2 year Captain's at Envoy very soon.
Flow goes to 40 per month in January.
LGA is a brand new base and we have another one looming. Think sub tropics.
Hire here and your ticket to AA has been punched. One interview and your career is off and running. You'll be in an AA cockpit in under 6 years.
So, why was it you were considering PSA again?
11-15-2016 | 04:41 AM
#24
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Joined: Aug 2007
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I don't know jack, and i'll be the first to admit it since I'm not on any property. I am interviewing and deciding where I'd like to go, so I don't say this to be antagonistic, just in searching for info.
Isn't quality of life at PSA 10x higher than it is at Envoy? It seems SAP keeps all lineholders as happy as can be with the exact schedules they want, while reserve is long at Envoy, and they junior man the heck out of you, sit you ready reserve a lot, have no variety in trips, etc.
Isn't quality of life at PSA 10x higher than it is at Envoy? It seems SAP keeps all lineholders as happy as can be with the exact schedules they want, while reserve is long at Envoy, and they junior man the heck out of you, sit you ready reserve a lot, have no variety in trips, etc.
11-15-2016 | 04:56 AM
#25
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I don't know jack, and i'll be the first to admit it since I'm not on any property. I am interviewing and deciding where I'd like to go, so I don't say this to be antagonistic, just in searching for info.
Isn't quality of life at PSA 10x higher than it is at Envoy? It seems SAP keeps all lineholders as happy as can be with the exact schedules they want, while reserve is long at Envoy, and they junior man the heck out of you, sit you ready reserve a lot, have no variety in trips, etc.
Isn't quality of life at PSA 10x higher than it is at Envoy? It seems SAP keeps all lineholders as happy as can be with the exact schedules they want, while reserve is long at Envoy, and they junior man the heck out of you, sit you ready reserve a lot, have no variety in trips, etc.
11-15-2016 | 06:26 AM
#26
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Joined: Nov 2016
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Why wouldn't you interview at both. Get a feel for the airlines through the interview process, they should be selling you on them just as much as you are trying to sell them on you. If you get an offer from both, then you have a decision to make. I'm interested to see how it turns out and what you decide. Best wishes.
I have no desire to be based in Philly. The cost of living is about 3x my home state. Plus the commute would be two leg, if not three.
Sounds like PSA would provide you the best QOL initially, but if your final goal is AA then PSA is probably not the place to go. Unless you have a military background, you are not getting hired at AA off the street and PSA's flow is a joke. What is it? 10+ years for a new hire today.
Bottom line to ANY new hires looking at the AAG WOs. You should realistically look at the flows as an attrition generator that will help ensure you experience steady movement up the seniority list. By the time the flow gets around to you, this industry is going to be transformed into something very different than it is today. The flows may or may not exist. Envoy, PSA, and Piedmont may or may not exist. None of us know what's going to happen over the next 5 years because the industry is basically going through some uncharted territory with the regional pilot shortage and the retirements at mainline. Pick the airline that works the best for you and your family and don't get caught up worrying about "who is going to flow me to mainline the quickest". Much has changed in the past couple years, and much will change in the next couple.
And from what I've heard new hires say, they didn't choose Piedmont because of your base options and equipment.
And from what I've heard new hires say, they didn't choose Piedmont because of your base options and equipment.
Agree that it is cyclical. PSA's star was on the rise a year ago, now it is Piedmont's turn. Soon, it will be someone else. (Although I don't beli e AAG will let any of the WOs fail at this point.) My point is, ask questions. Ask if you'll take a pay cut in year two. Ask to see the hire date of the most junior captain. Ask to see the math on the flow. The WOs are a great choice, but do your homework.
11-15-2016 | 06:46 AM
#27
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Joined: May 2016
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Why would you even consider going to PSA? To add to what P4P has outlined above:
Upgrade time dropping like a rock. Likely 2 year Captain's at Envoy very soon.
Flow goes to 40 per month in January.
LGA is a brand new base and we have another one looming. Think sub tropics.
Hire here and your ticket to AA has been punched. One interview and your career is off and running. You'll be in an AA cockpit in under 6 years.
So, why was it you were considering PSA again?
Upgrade time dropping like a rock. Likely 2 year Captain's at Envoy very soon.
Flow goes to 40 per month in January.
LGA is a brand new base and we have another one looming. Think sub tropics.
Hire here and your ticket to AA has been punched. One interview and your career is off and running. You'll be in an AA cockpit in under 6 years.
So, why was it you were considering PSA again?
You are crazy if you think we are flowing 40 in January.
11-15-2016 | 07:33 AM
#28
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Joined: Feb 2016
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I'll type really slow for you to understand. Quality of life!!!!!!!! What good is AA if it cost you your marriage and keeps you from seeing your kids grow up. Get better schedules and I would say Envoy hands down.
You are crazy if you think we are flowing 40 in January.
You are crazy if you think we are flowing 40 in January.
I will admit though that there are issues with a few of the sequences. However, these should affect very few pilots and not on every single sequence. As has been posted ad nauseum here, the issues lie in the flight file that is assigned to Envoy by AAG. The lack of midday flying has been one of the central issues Envoy has faced in the past year.
Expect anything that is an issue to improve in January or February as AAG is expected to add midday flying to the Envoy package.
After saying all of that, you are still going to flow to American. And you are going to flow faster than PSA or PDT. These three carriers are the only no interview and automatic flow in the industry. Envoy's flow percentages and contract language are far superior to PSA and PDT as well. If you want AA, then Envoy is where you want to be.
11-15-2016 | 08:10 AM
#29
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Joined: Mar 2016
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Much has been made on this board about schedules at Envoy. I have to be honest. It's LARGELY EXAGGERATED! There are a few anti Envoy types here that are constantly posting anything bad about the company possible and that includes schedules.
I will admit though that there are issues with a few of the sequences. However, these should affect very few pilots and not on every single sequence. As has been posted ad nauseum here, the issues lie in the flight file that is assigned to Envoy by AAG. The lack of midday flying has been one of the central issues Envoy has faced in the past year.
Expect anything that is an issue to improve in January or February as AAG is expected to add midday flying to the Envoy package.
After saying all of that, you are still going to flow to American. And you are going to flow faster than PSA or PDT. These three carriers are the only no interview and automatic flow in the industry. Envoy's flow percentages and contract language are far superior to PSA and PDT as well. If you want AA, then Envoy is where you want to be.
I will admit though that there are issues with a few of the sequences. However, these should affect very few pilots and not on every single sequence. As has been posted ad nauseum here, the issues lie in the flight file that is assigned to Envoy by AAG. The lack of midday flying has been one of the central issues Envoy has faced in the past year.
Expect anything that is an issue to improve in January or February as AAG is expected to add midday flying to the Envoy package.
After saying all of that, you are still going to flow to American. And you are going to flow faster than PSA or PDT. These three carriers are the only no interview and automatic flow in the industry. Envoy's flow percentages and contract language are far superior to PSA and PDT as well. If you want AA, then Envoy is where you want to be.
STOP! I'm top 5 FO on my equipment and I'm telling you, they're crap. Just like my 14 HR 4 day last week, then the 2 days off to come back and work a 15 hour trip with a lost day. These schedules are horrific from what I'm used to over the last 8 years.
Please try again.
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