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- Envoy Airlines (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/)

- - Envoy or PDT (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/envoy-airlines/98489-envoy-pdt.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro4President (Post 2261021)

So per the guy a page or two back you have 60 people not flowing by choice. I had recently heard PDT the number was 100 pilots not flowing.

Quick math. 400 pilots flowing at 4 per month then it's an 8 year flow. Ok so you say your pilot group will increase and then flow 5 per month. 400 pilots flowing at five per month avg is a 6+ flow. Not to mention AA doesn't hire in December. So that's another 5-6 months to add to these numbers.

I'm interested in how PDT comes up with their numbers on a fast flow. The only way you accelerate PDTs flow is by increasing the pilot group. This is very much like a pyramid scheme. If you get in while it's a small group then you are golden but once it gets growing there isn't much to be had.

I say 60, because we're actually flowing around the 100 seniority number.. we have many retirements. We also have management pilots.

I will say this I'm 2 years here.. I'm 2 out from flowing or less.. got my parole date.. this year I'll make a base of mid 60s as an fo.. with extra work, and few pilot referrals I'll be in the 80s no problem.. all while being an fo on a turbo prop.

I'm also debating whether to upgrade or not..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pedro4President (Post 2261002)

APC says you have 469 is that some what close? And how many per month are you hiring?

Were currenly at 515ish. Hiring 20-25/mo. Flow will reach 5/mo by no later than may. Projecting 6/mo by late 2017

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongTimeListenr (Post 2264811)

Pedro hit the nail on the head. Basing your flow projections on a hypothetical, and still far from attainable, pilot group size is misleading. The projections are only favorable when you assume many others will take the same bait.

Coincidentally, that sentence could be talking about pyramid schemes or Piedmont's flow.

Totally agree here. PDT flow projections are hypotheticals and seriously over inflated in my opinion. Running more realistic numbers myself, I conclude that a new hire over there is likely to spend 10 years or so before flowing.

If you want a true flow, come to ENY. It's contractual and the numbers are far higher and you will flow far more quickly than anywhere else.

Edited for clarity:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacuj (Post 2264937)

If you want a true flow, come to ENY. It's contractual (we scrupulously adhere to the contract) and the numbers are far higher and you will flow far more quickly than anywhere else.(today's flows waited a brief 15 years)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chignutsak (Post 2264946)

Edited for clarity:

You're twisting the facts. Nobody at Envoy is going to wait 15 years to flow today. That is due to 9/11, downturn in the economy and age 65. AKA the lost decade. Might want to get your facts straight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dacuj (Post 2264956)

Get your facts straight too: following the contract is a low priority for the company.

Did you see MK's post? His total time at Piedmont before flowing will be about FOUR years. That's what we're seeing from the inside. You outsiders can speculate about our flow all day long, but I for one am VERY happy to be here.

I've been at PDT for just under a year and my barroom napkin math is estimating 3.5-4 years from now till I flow under ideal conditions (we continue to grow to desired size, nothing tanks the industry or PDT/AA, etc).

In the meantime, I'll be making ~$75k over the next 12 months without even doing more than working my regular line. As an FO. As MKUltra said...I'm in no rush to upgrade since I'm already making decent money and my base seniority has gotten steadily better in a short amount of time, so I'm not stuck with the scrap lines each month.

My only real complaint at this point is that we don't have as much schedule flexibility as the PSA guys. (And I'm tired of lugging around a chart case! ipads when??).

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKUltra (Post 2264902)

I'm also debating whether to upgrade or not..

If you upgrade does that affect the flow?

What can an average PDT F/O make their first year (counting premium pay) and averaging 12 days off a month?

What can an average PDT Capt make their first year given the same scenario?

Is it much different at PSA, ENV or EDV?

It almost seems like if you are young enough, there is almost no point in going to an LCC when you can make good money at the regionals with travel and health benefits with a possibility of flow or interview to the mainline.