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Old 01-11-2017, 12:42 PM   #251
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Originally Posted by cr700 View Post
This is like your 4th screen name. Pathetic.
Your off base, again. Just because someone agrees with another person doesn't make them the same person. It means that they share a position. I'd be interested to see how many people will take the pay freeze to stay in their base when they upgrade.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:06 PM   #252
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Hi there;
Any insight on current upgrade time at Envoy? Strongly considering it as an option. Thanks!
Newest Bid went to a Nov 2012 hire. The flowplan will take a few weeks to show when that person will actually head to class but if they really do run a bid each quarter, that person should be in class within a few months. I don't have the time to count the number of guys between Nov 2012 to Nov 2015 but I'd guess it is less than 200. I didn't believe the 2.5 yr upgrade that Ric promised any more than anyone else but he may not end up missing the mark by too much.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:09 PM   #253
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The answer is a lot! Kinda speaks to what we find more important, money or QOL. A lot don't want to be in the meat grinder that is captain reserve even for a big pay bump.
With the current FO bonuses, it's not even that big of a pay bump anymore. Especially if you factor in commuting costs and unpaid time away for those that could only hold a base away from home.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:12 PM   #254
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I think you are stressing about quick flying too much, while some bases and equipment fly more in some months, it is likely to be a wash over the course of a year or two. If able pick the base and equipment you want, at the end of the day pick the best base available for your situation.

NY temds to be more junior, there is a bid that could see 25 to 50 FO leave NY to DFW and possibly ORD. The place that is the shortest path to a line today might not be tomorrow.

Example, the last E75 line holder is likely on the pipeline already, there are only 25 to 35 current FO on that equipment that will see an upgrade in the next 2 years, so those heading into the E75 will be junior for a while unless the fleet grows.

Example, Ny the base is growing and junior. Likely to see movement as people shift but with ORD slated to shrink and if not backfilled for those whom are leaving the folks junior in ORD will be junior for a while, today ORD E45 is the fastest line on the E45.

Example, DFW E45, longest path to a line on the E45, however the status Just posted a vacancy for FO and has been backfilled the last couple of bids.

Example, CRJ, fleet shrinking and could see little movement but a delay in the transfers for whatever reason would see this change.

If you commute vs live in base makes a big difference in OT pick up. If you live in NY but 2 hours away and the construction in LGA is much different than living in DFW. Not to sound repetitive, but based your equipment and base on where do you want to be away from work and hopefully is available or on an equipment that could get you there.
Currently on the 175, FOs are holding a line about 2 months out of training. Mileage may vary in the future.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:38 PM   #255
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With the current FO bonuses, it's not even that big of a pay bump anymore. Especially if you factor in commuting costs and unpaid time away for those that could only hold a base away from home.
If or when flow times come down, some FO's will be happy to stay right seat until AA due to seat lock. This will keep upgrade times low for a few years IF status quo remains. You are right about the pay vs. QOL. You will make more on CA pay due to all the JM's. If you value QOL you can make CA pay as FO
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:38 PM   #256
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Latest vacancy preliminary award has the junior captain as a 12 NOV 2012 hire.
We are now into 4 year upgrades at Envoy.

All of you new guys here posting with questions, you've made the best decision of your life. I know that for many of you, this is your first 121 job. Where else can you hire onto your first 121 carrier and literally be in an AA cockpit in less than 6 years.

If you were in doubt, the results of this latest award will clear all of that up for you. Expect more vacancies this year. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we went sub 2 year upgrade this year. The trend is moving in our direction fast and the 2.5 may be history. Again, for you new hires. First 121 job, you upgrade right at 2 years and then 3 1/2 years late are sitting at AA. Pretty sweet if I say so myself.
How are you seeing the vacancy awards? I can't find them.

Thanks.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:46 PM   #257
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Currently on the 175, FOs are holding a line about 2 months out of training. Mileage may vary in the future.
Yes, those FO have been in the pipeline since early Fall 2016, those hired in the coming classes will not experience the same fate.

10 FO from DFW E75 were awarded an upgrade on this bid, out of the next 200+ in line from most junior upgrade, around 20 are from DFL. Unless we keep seeing high bypass numbers, the most senior probationary pilot today, that sits on the top 35 on the E75 will not be attend training for an upgrade until mid 2018. That means that the DFL list isn't likely to have a whole lot of movement in 2017. The reason it has moved so fast is because we have a growing fleet and for the last 6 months we have seen 5 to 8 FO leave the status for upgrade training on a monthly basis. 14 to 16 FO finish training every month on average and 5 to 8 leave with an increase of 8 lines on average, this creates 15+ new line holders per month. Moving forward our attrition will not be as high per month, so we going to see around 10 new line holders for the next 6 months, currently there are around that many FO in the pipeline plus those sitting reserve currently. Then in 2018 the line list will move rather quickly specially when you get to the spring 2015 hires.

Last edited by What; 01-11-2017 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:50 PM   #258
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How are you seeing the vacancy awards? I can't find them.

Thanks.
hehe, they are well connected, with the union or mgt. You'll get an email from ALPA when the official preliminary bid comes out.
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Old 01-11-2017, 01:51 PM   #259
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hehe, they are well connected, with the union or mgt. You'll get an email from ALPA when the official preliminary bid comes out.
Thank you!
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:01 PM   #260
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hehe, they are well connected, with the union or mgt. You'll get an email from ALPA when the official preliminary bid comes out.
It's been posted on some of the envoy Facebook pages by union reps. So it's publically available, but hasn't been emailed out yet.
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