cr700

Your chances are zero and none outside the flow. Envoy is the place you want to be. It's where you will get the fastest upgrade and flow. You'll be onboard with AA as soon as you set foot on property at Envoy.

bigtime209

I personally know at least 10 Envoy pilots that have gotten hired outside of the flow. And there have been others that have gotten hired outside the flow that I don't personally know. Both CAs and FOs. They all had something that set them apart that got them hired off the street. Some were interns, some were military, some had family connections, and some were females. If you don't have some kind of connection like those I just listed, you won't have much of a shot. In the current hiring environment, you have to be a flowthrough or you have to have something special to get you in the door. In a few years when the retirements really take off, that could change. But right now, don't expect just a college degree and a ton of jet PIC time to be your ticket to get you hired off the street. Flows and military pilots make up the vast majority of those hired right now. The rest are former interns or have friend/family connections.

DilsonWic

Not all true. Unlike the PP group, one misunderstanding with the CPO could result in a letter in your file not allowing you to flow.

And anyone at envoy knows it just takes sneezing wrong and boom, Step one letter.

ORDinary

I don't know it offhand or I would've PM'ed you, but it is in your FM-1.

3EngineTaxi

This isn't correct. One does not get a mainline seniority number until after one flows. While waiting to flow, hundreds or thousands will get hired in ahead of you off the street.

SheepDogg

What is the current competitive minimums for getting hired off the street? Military guys get hired pretty quick, well, after their commitment to Uncle Sam. What is that at now? Something like 8 years. Or he could go the regional route. What are those guys getting hired at? Second or third trip after their FO IOE? No, 7,000 to 8,000 hrs total time with around 4,000 of PIC. How many hours a year does the average regional pilot fly? Somewhere around 800 hrs a year. Getting that 8,000 hrs is going to take a while.

Eaglepilot84

Kind of off topic, but looks like the union might be gearing up for a fight with management over benefits provided to envoy flows in regards to company time. Long story short, when the grievance settlements were agreed to with AMR, eagle flows would be eligible for inter-company transfer benefits. AAG, in their infinite cheapness and general disdain for us, decided to end that. So all sick time is "use it or lose it", vacation accrual starts over just as if you are a new-hire, and all associated bidding rights in regards to company seniority will start over upon your flow to American. This was not the case under the company formerly known as AMR.

Just food for thought for those considering coming to envoy (or any other WO) for the flow. Yes you will flow at some point, I don't really doubt that, but just keep in mind how AAG treats their WO pilots and how you can expect to be treated for the entirety of your career if you choose to stay for the flow.

Bob Loblaw

I wouldn't count on any changes. Besides ALPA generally being ineffective, the wording of letter 12-02 is weak.

AlphaMikeFoxtrt

LMGTFY

1st site (talkairline) has all you hopes and dreams!?!?!

Taco280AI

I always see "military gets picked up" comments but has anyone seen that apply to rotor guys or just military fixed wing?