Timeoff2fish

Why don't you smarten up? It is the BOOGIE monster, not the boggie monster.

Airbum

this sick policy would be a horrible nightmare at UPS. Keep the fight against it going please!

MEMA300

It's already our standard practice

TonyC

OK, I provided an example of flight management substituting their judgment for the judgment of the pilot involved, and you clearly would rather use that as a tangent to chase rather than stick to the topic.

Look, squirrel.


Yeah, that squirrel. Yeah, so what?


OK, last time I'm gonna try this. Nobody cares if you call SICK early. Lucky you, you always get sick or injured well in advance of report time. Give that man a participation trophy.

Some of lesser humans get sick or injured or experience other situations which leave us unfit to fly at times much closer to report time. We should be able to call SICK whenever it occurs, even if it's minutes prior to report time. And that's what I have been talking about.

Good for United. Good for American. Good for DOL. I don't know if you've noticed, but we are none of the above.


That's not how it works, Capt Kronan. You don't get to ask those kinds of questions. Just send in Sick note, and don't miss the deadline.


Cool. I forgot you have your own deal with The Company. That stuff they put in contracts and letters of agreement and settlement agreements shouldn't bother you if you've got your own system worked out with management.

Hey, but at least we agree on one very important point.

Taking away pay for calling in sick IS pilot pushing!



Look, another squirrel. And, just as I figured, if it doesn't affect you, who cares?


Nobody cares if you call in sick early.

I'm not calling in sick on my days off unless I expect it to extend into a trip. Would you call in sick if you got sick on the first day of your vacation? Oh, wait, never mind. Please don't answer. Ignore the squirrel.






.

TonyC

What I meant to say was, "Some of US lesser humans ..." Proof that I'm one of the lesser ones.

I also meant to talk about this:
No, it's not a long history of requesting "information." Having a physician vouch that you were sick was as far as it goes. And that's as far as it should ever go. If The Company does believe you, they can remove you from trips with pay and have you pay their Aeromedical Advisor a visit.

What our CBA has a history of is The Company requiring "a pilot to provide the System Chief Pilot’s designee with a written statement from the pilot’s physician explaining his inability to perform his assigned duties because of illness or injury IF the Company has a good faith, and objective reason to question a pilot’s use or attempted use of sick leave;" There's nothing in there about a secret point system. There's nothing in there about submitting your case to The Company's Aeromedical advisor. There's nothing in there about pleading your case to the SCP's designee if you don't have a note. And there's nothing in there describing what the physician has to say, or what verbiage will not be acceptable.



PFC notices do not constitute binding CBA language.







.

pinseeker

Except that you have accumulated points against your sick usage even though you didn't miss any work. The next time you get a cold, a sick note may be required.
Maybe that's why guys wait until the day before a trip to call in sick if they actually felt bad a couple days prior.

Sluggo_63

You really are a piece of work, there, Tony. You try to get people to believe the people you are debating can't stay on task and get distracted by tangents (squirrel), so therefore their arguments are null and void. Ad hominem. I, too, wonder why Kronan went on some tangent about jumpseat duty time in his reply to you. That's crazy, right?!

Oh... he was responding to your four paragraphs talking about jumpseat usage and duty time and pilot judgement.

There goes Kronan chasing another squirrel when responding to your post. I wish he would learn to stay on task, amirite? Where did this squirrel come from, now?

I get it; that's your M.O. You post these manifestos and release a scurry of squirrels into the topic and admonish people to stop being distracted by your squirrels and stay on task.



Ad hominem...

Ad hominem...

You know that's not what's happening. They are not taking pay away for calling in sick. I just called in sick and I didn't lose any pay.

False dilemma...

Sluggo_63

And the way I read it, that's exactly what RF's FCIF said.

There have been many posts on here with pilots saying they are just going to go to their doctor and have a note saying that they were seen in the office. There were even pilots posting links on this board to websites where you can get doctors' notes over the internet without being seen in an office.

You yourself pointed out that the CBA (for as long as I can remember) has had the "explaining his inability to perform his assigned duties" phrase. I don't think by any stretch "Pilot X was seen in my office on Thursday." explains an inability to perform assigned duties. But some people twist that into saying you need to give the company a detailed medical history complete with pictures, and that's also not what RF's FCIF said. "Pilot X was seen in my office for an arm injury." "Pilot X was seen in my office for a GI disorder." Broad terms, nothing specific.

It says an "objective" reason. Personally, I think the point system is better than the previous unknown "subjective" system of "we think there might be an issue." Now, I agree that we should be privy to the point system. That shouldn't be a secret and we should know what criteria we are being held to (although I can see some problems with releasing the point system as well).

Um, yes it kind of does. See above. The note has to "explain the inability to perform his assigned duties." And that's what my physician's notes will say. No more. No less.

urinmyseat

It still is a secret point system if it isn't shown somewhere we can see it, like on the activities page of VIPs.

My case I wrote of earlier, came about because of a glitch in the system. I only actually called in sick 5 times in 37 months. I questioned RF and threw up the BS flag. I asked him to look back and tell me where "7" sick calls came from. 7 was the number he told me triggered the automated request.

It ended up, that I called in sick for 3 days of hub turns in that time period. For some reason the computer registered each day dropped as a new sick call, thus pushing my total to "7".

I expected him to say forget about the note, but he said his hands were tied, and I needed a note to avoid a letter in my file.

Now a system "glitch" has us explaining medical conditions to a slew of people, who have no right to know about our personal conditions.

period...AMERICA!

hoya saxa

But it CAN happen and as statistically significant as your one experience is I don't think we've set an unbreakable precedent. I know people who have gone 3+ years being asked for a sick note every time they call - and looking at their calendars doesn't show anything that would seem "abusive" on the surface. Yet they've made someone's special watch list for whatever arbitrary, extra-CBA reason. Think those types of folks might get targeted for pay removal to "teach them a lesson"? I'm cynical enough to say that not only might THEY get targeted but also might an ever-increasing number of pilots. Despite your vast anecdotal sample to the contrary.


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