Adlerdriver

You pay protect anyone who loses a trip due to illegalities, schedule changes, etc. once the bid month begins i.e. anything that now generates sub.
Like normal airlines do it.

kronan

What are Recovery options listed in the various CBA comparisons I’ve seen?

kronan

golfandfly

I’m all for it, but I seriously doubt we could negotiate this without huge givebacks elsewhere.

MelT

With the new secondary line process and the fallacy of known reserve days futures can now build a line to within a nat's ass of any BLG target they would care to hit. You shouldn't be rewarded more for protecting min days off just because you bid a secondary line.

MelT

Bingo! And they already have started in the 757 Captain seat. Its great!

FXLAX

I’m not one of those who tries to fly a lot, on the contrary. I can count the times I’ve picked up a trip on both hands in the last decade. So it doesn’t make a difference to me either way. But just so we are on the same page, how does someone picking up trips hurt the crew force? Staffing? If so, you could still leave a limit on how many CHs someone can pick up, if that is the concern.

As for making someone whole, simply protect what your schedule ends up once it’s final. If any schedule is removed or adjusted for any reason, you are pay protected for the value of the trip.


There is nothing to imply. Instant trip trading would give instant gratification. And it would drastically shorten the amount of time and effort wasted. And if you read my other posts, you would see I’m for protecting the positives but in other ways.

Also, the only reason I mentioned my previous company was because I was responding to someone who mentioned how it was done at his previous company. The notion that people shouldn’t bring up how it was done at their previous company just because they chose to come here is childish. We should all be sharing the items here and there that were better at our previous companies to try to improve this one!

Any BOT issue can only be solved by management. My guess is they wouldn’t want BOTs either. So it’s a matter of gathering information and providing it to management so they can get rid of them in a way that doesn’t hinder everyone.

Again, this just strengthens the argument for instant trip trading. The senior get what they want through line bidding. And then the senior and junior, on equal footing, can try to trade for open trips.

Adlerdriver

No. It’s not our (pilot’s) job to rat out our fellow crew members to management. I don’t want our union or individual pilots in the business of “gathering information” to pass on to the company.
They’ve got more info than any individual pilot or union committee member has concerning a pliot’s VIPS activity, BLAs, scheduler’s on duty when shenanigans happen, etc. If management wanted it to stop, they could easily do so. They sure as hell wanted HKG commuters to forfeit the housing allowance and made that whole fiasco happen pretty efficiently.

FXLAX

I wasn’t referring to giving names of pilots who supposedly do this. Im referring to gathering information of how this is done and to what extent. I’m talking about management looking into their systems to see what the actual data shows.

I’m not entirely convinced this even happens. Because like you said, they could have this data easily. Unless they don’t even know to look into it? If it was happening, and management knew if it, why wouldn’t they want to stop it?

My whole point is that if we believe it’s something that’s happening, and we don’t want it to happen, only management can update their systems to stop it. This isn’t something that’s in the purview of the Union. So again, if it’s happening, and we want it to stop, we need information and inform management.

Alternatively, I’m all for fair warning. Let people know this is something that is going to be looked into. If it’s being done, people need to know it off.

Adlerdriver

If by "we" you mean ALPA, I say again, no. It's not our union's job to rat out its members to the company. Nothing these pilots are doing is specifically prohibited in our contract or any company rules of which I'm aware. Are they violating the spirit of some of the provisions? (recycling OTP or using a collective effort to grab trips and re-distribute them within their pack) - Absolutely. But that's a vague standard that clearly the company is not interested in using to curtail this activity. An individual getting insider information from schedulers, especially if there's tangible favors involved, is probably crossing a line the company would be far less tolerant of. But proving that is probably not worth the potential fallout in terms of legal, justifiable methods of investigating that behavior versus benefit.

You're naive if you think they aren't fully aware of what's going on. The trips are getting flown and really, that's all that matters to them in the end. If ALPA decides to make this stop, it has to be done using negotiated language that defines acceptable limits. Pro-standards and our union leadership then have firm ground to stand on to police our own without getting management involved. It's a slippery slope when our own union starts getting involved in compiling data on its members for use by the company. I really don't think we want to go that direction, IMO.